ficus buxifolia

centaura · 01-08-2011, 04:27 PM

In another thread I mentioned despairing of getting ramification in a ficus buxifolia. Here is my small one, a shot from last year and a shot from today. I'm getting growth, but getting any density on the branches has proven unachievable at the moment. I have a larger one that I had been working on for longer, and it has the same problem. Ah well.

-Centaura

artyanimal · 01-11-2011, 07:10 PM

Centaura,

If you want, you can arrive at the same 'unachievable' destination your headed for a little sooner as follows:

The box leaf is one of those exceptions to the rule type ficus. Big fat trunks take years...big limbs take years...filling them out...(sigh).

Evidently, this you already well know, is not some mere green island fig.

In my estimation however, this is also the key to this little beastie. Since it is the anti-ficus if you will, treat is as such and simply ignore everything every fiber of your being is telling you that you have already learned about ficus.

You seem more than able to keep them perfectly healthy, so the trick is (and its not much of a trick at all) is to let it grow (forever) in every direction into a hidious tangled rangy ocotpus with straight branches and giant leaves! OH NO!

But YES! Not until this little monster has grown well beyond any semblance of a reasonable boundry for its trunk size should you start with your major chop back of the overgrown main branches just like you did your willow leaf trunk in the afore mentioned thread. Low and behold, it will, I promise (finally) behave like any other ficus by back budding everywhere. But, don't stop there! Once you have no more than three or four leaves on each new shoot start pinching them forthwith. Repeat this (forever) and you will eventually have a bushy dense tree with already significantly reduced leaves.

I know, like anyone else with any sense you are probably wondering: What? Reduce without having built the structure of smaller branches first? Are you nuts?

Well, yes but, that's another topic.

Anyway, only then, should you address a box leaf's structure. Dive headlong into that dense dark mass of twigs and leaves where others dare not tread and boldly hack them to bits thereby choosing your keepers. Then, if you can beleive it, you just keep right on pinching new twigs and reducing the same as before.

Remember this is the dreaded anti-ficus and is best dealt with from that perspective. In other words, backwards. So finally, someday a little sooner perhaps than your present course, with all else done, you again thin the twigs and will be ready to wire and shape your already reduced and already full and bushy little tree into a proper...uh...reverse bonsai.

Or not.

Cheers,

Arty

centaura · 01-11-2011, 09:22 PM

Hmmmm.... that sounds interesting. Its worth trying, at least, since treating it like a ficus isn't getting anywhere. I hadn't trimmed it much this last year, so I'll go for a few years without trimming it and then hack it back. It needs more fullness in the top anyway to fill out the taper a bit. How did you stumble upon this with the buxifolias? Accident? Trial and error? Just curious - since you're right, it seems to be the "wrong" way to go about things - but I'm guessing its worked for you or you wouldn't be recommending it.

Thanks for the advice,

-Centaura

treebeard55 · 01-12-2011, 07:20 AM

Arty, I like your term, the "anti-ficus!"

Sounds like you're going from your own experience, or at least from observing first-hand the investigations of others. We seem to have here another example of a tree that doesn't fit the "received wisdom" -- like serissas turning out to be warm-temperate trees rather than true tropicals. Your info shows again the value of pushing the envelope, checking things out for ourselves, pioneering.

You just might just persuade me try buxifolia again. (thoughtful look)

artyanimal · 01-13-2011, 06:43 AM

Centaura and Treebeard,

'Stumbled on' and 'own experience' (respectively) are just about right...

Even in Florida sun the box leaf's habit is to end up being gangly at best. I did/do however have a good source for bigger trees with already fat trunks which, as you know, does take some time to achieve. Viewing these trunks pretty much every trip to the grower finally twisted my arm so much that I had no choice (every enthusiast knows this feeling) but to start "handling" them. As I am also a big fan of rooting everything, the remainder of box leaf chops invariably ended up on the potting bench with everything else.

These bigger tree leftovers were allowed to grow as they pleased until I could practically name each one like: spindly, lanky, weedy, gangly and so on until such time as frustration over space became the prevailing issue. That's when I would start with the first ticked off "major chop back" as stated above. The result of course, was back budding everywere and that was good. That they immediately tried to return to growing out again in long non-branching shoots was not. Angry pinching ensued until almost without realizing it, I had an experiment in dense misdirected topiary production gone horribly wrong.

And that was good!

That was when I started thinning them out thereby beginning to shape limbs with nothing more than scissors which, I continued to do whenever needed further directing limbs into branches and so on always followed by furious pinching.

Skip ahead to the "final" thinning (before wire) and I found myself already involved in ramification of bushy trees with already reduced leaves. The flexible ficus branches and twig keepers were the end game key as they could then be easily and properly shaped for more interest.

I may have an unchopped cutting or two laying around. As I do not leave Florida until the end of May I might have just enough time to do a rushed progression by keeping them exclusively in the greenhouse during our Florida 'winter" and post the pics here.

What say you?

Cheers,

Arty

centaura · 01-13-2011, 08:20 PM

So, when you're cutting back hard, after letting them grow into a gangly mess, do you trim back behind where there are leaves? Or do you do a more typical to the last leaf type of trim? I have my bigger bux, which I got as a gangly mess and then thinned it out to find some branch structure - and you bet, its back to just long, gangly growth. I don't think I trimmed either bux this year, so I'll let them both go for another year or two and try your method. Thanks - and if you have time for a progression, I wouldn't mind seeing it.

-Centaura

artyanimal · 01-14-2011, 05:59 AM

My ficus friendly enviornment allows me to chop/not chop simply as an intended design consideration. I therefore, have the luxury of leaving...er...leaves (or not) as frankly, they are irrelevant with just about every variety available to me. Please don't think I'm being smug. Its just that in Florida, it is almost absurd (check that-IT IS ABSURD) what one can get away with.

I just looked in 'My Pictures' to see if I had a really, really severe box chop to show you but, I don't. Guess I just thought they were way too ugly to photo. hehe

I did however, find a willow leaf chop (although much 'safer' than a real hack back) that may illustrate my point. The growth you will see in the second pic took ONE SEASON!

Maybe I should see if I can really chop one of the box cuttings later today when I start our rapid progression series.

Cheers,

Arty

artyanimal · 01-15-2011, 05:13 AM

Here are pics of our subjects that refuse to act like ficus. They are just rooted cuttings so I do not have 'starting' photos.

You'll have to take my word for it that as ususal, despite being allowed to grow into the current "gangly mess" the trunks seem to me to show hardly any increase at all from last year when the cuttings first took.

In any event, we can now see that few or no new 'limbs' have put out any secondary branches. Just the typical line of leaves like soldiers all the way up each new long skinny stem. As I said earlier, this is not much of a trick at all, especially this part as these will be fairly typical chops (except that they are taking place in our winter). But hey, ya gotta start somewhere!

Cheers,

Arty

artyanimal · 01-15-2011, 05:21 AM

And now for the 'afters'. Posted in the same order as above and showing progressively harder chops. (Pic on right, I left one leaf for you Centaura. hehe)

treebeard55 · 01-15-2011, 05:45 PM

Thanks for the pics, Arty, and the extended comments.

BTW, your avatar makes me think of a something I saw that I can only describe as a visual oxymoron: a squirrel monkey (tropical) in the branches of a yew (cold-temperate!)

This was in the Fota Arboretum outside Cork City, Ireland. I tried to get a picture, but the little blaggard turned away right at the crucial moment.

01-12-2011, 07:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 511	Arty, I like your term, the "anti-ficus!" Sounds like you're going from your own experience, or at least from observing first-hand the investigations of others. We seem to have here another example of a tree that doesn't fit the "received wisdom" -- like serissas turning out to be warm-temperate trees rather than true tropicals. Your info shows again the value of pushing the envelope, checking things out for ourselves, pioneering. You just might just persuade me try buxifolia again. (thoughtful look) __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

01-13-2011, 06:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
artyanimal Snipologist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid-coast Maine / Zone 5 and S. Florida / Zone 10 Posts: 89	Centaura and Treebeard, 'Stumbled on' and 'own experience' (respectively) are just about right... Even in Florida sun the box leaf's habit is to end up being gangly at best. I did/do however have a good source for bigger trees with already fat trunks which, as you know, does take some time to achieve. Viewing these trunks pretty much every trip to the grower finally twisted my arm so much that I had no choice (every enthusiast knows this feeling) but to start "handling" them. As I am also a big fan of rooting everything, the remainder of box leaf chops invariably ended up on the potting bench with everything else. These bigger tree leftovers were allowed to grow as they pleased until I could practically name each one like: spindly, lanky, weedy, gangly and so on until such time as frustration over space became the prevailing issue. That's when I would start with the first ticked off "major chop back" as stated above. The result of course, was back budding everywere and that was good. That they immediately tried to return to growing out again in long non-branching shoots was not. Angry pinching ensued until almost without realizing it, I had an experiment in dense misdirected topiary production gone horribly wrong. And that was good! That was when I started thinning them out thereby beginning to shape limbs with nothing more than scissors which, I continued to do whenever needed further directing limbs into branches and so on always followed by furious pinching. Skip ahead to the "final" thinning (before wire) and I found myself already involved in ramification of bushy trees with already reduced leaves. The flexible ficus branches and twig keepers were the end game key as they could then be easily and properly shaped for more interest. I may have an unchopped cutting or two laying around. As I do not leave Florida until the end of May I might have just enough time to do a rushed progression by keeping them exclusively in the greenhouse during our Florida 'winter" and post the pics here. What say you? Cheers, Arty Last edited by artyanimal; 01-13-2011 at 06:46 AM..

01-15-2011, 05:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 511	Thanks for the pics, Arty, and the extended comments. BTW, your avatar makes me think of a something I saw that I can only describe as a visual oxymoron: a squirrel monkey (tropical) in the branches of a yew (cold-temperate!) This was in the Fota Arboretum outside Cork City, Ireland. I tried to get a picture, but the little blaggard turned away right at the crucial moment. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

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01-11-2011, 07:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
artyanimal Snipologist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid-coast Maine / Zone 5 and S. Florida / Zone 10 Posts: 89	Centaura, If you want, you can arrive at the same 'unachievable' destination your headed for a little sooner as follows: The box leaf is one of those exceptions to the rule type ficus. Big fat trunks take years...big limbs take years...filling them out...(sigh). Evidently, this you already well know, is not some mere green island fig. In my estimation however, this is also the key to this little beastie. Since it is the anti-ficus if you will, treat is as such and simply ignore everything every fiber of your being is telling you that you have already learned about ficus. You seem more than able to keep them perfectly healthy, so the trick is (and its not much of a trick at all) is to let it grow (forever) in every direction into a hidious tangled rangy ocotpus with straight branches and giant leaves! OH NO! But YES! Not until this little monster has grown well beyond any semblance of a reasonable boundry for its trunk size should you start with your major chop back of the overgrown main branches just like you did your willow leaf trunk in the afore mentioned thread. Low and behold, it will, I promise (finally) behave like any other ficus by back budding everywhere. But, don't stop there! Once you have no more than three or four leaves on each new shoot start pinching them forthwith. Repeat this (forever) and you will eventually have a bushy dense tree with already significantly reduced leaves. I know, like anyone else with any sense you are probably wondering: What? Reduce without having built the structure of smaller branches first? Are you nuts? Well, yes but, that's another topic. Anyway, only then, should you address a box leaf's structure. Dive headlong into that dense dark mass of twigs and leaves where others dare not tread and boldly hack them to bits thereby choosing your keepers. Then, if you can beleive it, you just keep right on pinching new twigs and reducing the same as before. Remember this is the dreaded anti-ficus and is best dealt with from that perspective. In other words, backwards. So finally, someday a little sooner perhaps than your present course, with all else done, you again thin the twigs and will be ready to wire and shape your already reduced and already full and bushy little tree into a proper...uh...reverse bonsai. Or not. Cheers, Arty

01-11-2011, 09:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
centaura Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 334	Hmmmm.... that sounds interesting. Its worth trying, at least, since treating it like a ficus isn't getting anywhere. I hadn't trimmed it much this last year, so I'll go for a few years without trimming it and then hack it back. It needs more fullness in the top anyway to fill out the taper a bit. How did you stumble upon this with the buxifolias? Accident? Trial and error? Just curious - since you're right, it seems to be the "wrong" way to go about things - but I'm guessing its worked for you or you wouldn't be recommending it. Thanks for the advice, -Centaura

01-13-2011, 08:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
centaura Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 334	So, when you're cutting back hard, after letting them grow into a gangly mess, do you trim back behind where there are leaves? Or do you do a more typical to the last leaf type of trim? I have my bigger bux, which I got as a gangly mess and then thinned it out to find some branch structure - and you bet, its back to just long, gangly growth. I don't think I trimmed either bux this year, so I'll let them both go for another year or two and try your method. Thanks - and if you have time for a progression, I wouldn't mind seeing it. -Centaura

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