Planting lots of seeds for bonsai

J-Bog · 12-29-2007, 05:17 PM

I have a bulk 100 seed pack of random conifers that I am wanting to plant. They are an assortment of many different kinds of conifers and I am unsure as to how I should plant these.

Should I plant them in a giant tray of dirt, or should I start them each in their own little peat disc?

Phil · 12-29-2007, 05:22 PM

I've never gotten into planting seeds but conifer seeds must first be stratified if I'm not mistaken before you can plant them

~Phil

AlainK · 12-29-2007, 05:56 PM

If these seeds are from different species that you can't sort out, my advice would be to plant them in a large box and leave them outside : I think (tell me if I'm mistaken) that Idaho has harsh winters. Periods of frost and warmer weather will be as efficient outside as putting them in moist sand in a fridge.

So i'd say put them in a polythene box (the kind of box they sell fish) filled with coarse grit at the bottom, then a layer of fine sand in which you put the seeds, 1cm (half an inch) coarse grit on top, and outside.

I even had a few seeds growing after the second year doing that with a bag of "bonsai seeds"

so if that doesn't work, keep watering the box until the 2nd spring...

One of the seedlings (about 4-5 years, june 2007):

...and after drastic pruning (July 2007):

I know that some of you may be skeptical, but "rendez-vous" in a couple of years...

Phil · 12-29-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlainK

I even had a few seeds growing after the second year doing that with a bag of "bonsai seeds"

Ah yes.....the infamous "bonsai seeds"!

Well, if your going to get into "bonsai seeds" I have just the book. When I get the time I'll have to do a review on it in the Book Review in the Article section.

~Phil

jhill · 12-29-2007, 06:47 PM

Jbog,
100 seeds is a lot of seeds to plant in a tray. The tray would have to be pretty large. I have a wooden box that is about 3" deep and is 5' long and 3' wide to start black pine seeds in. I fill it with sand and placed my seeds in it and kept it moist. I had to pretty much water it twice a day for the sand is free draining and drys out quickly. After a week or so the seeds start to sprout. I wait until the seedlings start to show a redish color in the stem then I transplant into pond baskets. But before I transplant them I cut the roots and stem to about 1/4 to 1/2 inch from the top, then dip in hormones and plant. This will create roots closer to the top and more of them. I know that starting trees from seed is a process that takes a few years but with black pine you can have a very nice tree in about 5 years.

A Friend in bonsai
John

J-Bog · 12-30-2007, 12:21 AM

Would it work okay if I got 100 peat discs and put each seed into its own disc then after it sprouts and grows a bit, transplant it into some good bonsai soil?

Or should I really be using sand for these conifer seeds?

Phil · 12-30-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Bog

Would it work okay if I got 100 peat discs and put each seed into its own disc then after it sprouts and grows a bit, transplant it into some good bonsai soil?

Or should I really be using sand for these conifer seeds?

One of the many advantages of a forum site is in trying to gain information from someone who has had good, if not at least some, experience with the question one may put forth. As I said, I have never gotten into seeds but if this was my first venture I would go along with the information that John gave and plant them in sand. John has been into bonsai for sometime now and has much experience under his belt. Seems I have heard the use of sand for seeds several times in the past so it would seem to me the best route to take.

Seeing that you have so many seeds why not simply plant some in peat disks and the others in sand? Experimentation is the best teacher.

~Phil

Kansai · 12-30-2007, 10:53 AM

John--Can you be a little more specific about the type of sand to use and where to get it? Would Turface, straight out of the bag, be fine-grained enough?

DR

bonsaikc · 12-30-2007, 11:04 AM

Jbog,
I suggest doing a little more homework on your subject. Just throwing out the question in a forum will get you some information, but what you want is definitive information. I suggest searching at other forums, but especially look for those who have had extensive experience and success at propagating from seed.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/seed.htm

In fact, Brent's site has some of the best, most precise information about all aspects of propagation for bonsai. It's how he makes his living. You can't get much better information.

Prowler · 12-30-2007, 11:20 AM

J-B
All advice that has been given is good, especially the outside part.
A few years ago i dug up an area that was going to be for a barbecue, i lined the area with thick black poly. then a layer 3inch thick of gravel, but i never used it.
Nature took over, any seedlings that grow are very easy to remove, just a simple tug and they are out, none of this large thick roots, the poly. stops that.
If you have a garden just make a simple frame the size you need, scatter your seeds and stand back, no watering no feeding, put it in a shady area and that's it.
As stated the seeds may need a couple of years to germinate, but you will find you have more success doing it this way. Cheers.

12-29-2007, 05:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
J-Bog Sage Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Boise, ID USDA Zone: 6A Posts: 63	Planting lots of seeds for bonsai I have a bulk 100 seed pack of random conifers that I am wanting to plant. They are an assortment of many different kinds of conifers and I am unsure as to how I should plant these. Should I plant them in a giant tray of dirt, or should I start them each in their own little peat disc? __________________ "It is said that you should never leave anything to chance; but, in operating like that, chance never leaves anything to you."

12-29-2007, 05:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Phil A bit "Windswept" Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago, Ill. USDA Zone 5 Posts: 1,042	I've never gotten into planting seeds but conifer seeds must first be stratified if I'm not mistaken before you can plant them ~Phil __________________ Please, always keep in mind that the typewritten word does not always convey what you wish to say, and to always treat others as you would have them treat you. Think twice-submit once. I started out with nothing....and still have most of it. "Its hell out there, give them hell back." ~ Prowler/Victor Gray 12/31/1943 - 11/24/2008

12-29-2007, 05:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
AlainK Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orléans, France Posts: 187	If these seeds are from different species that you can't sort out, my advice would be to plant them in a large box and leave them outside : I think (tell me if I'm mistaken) that Idaho has harsh winters. Periods of frost and warmer weather will be as efficient outside as putting them in moist sand in a fridge. So i'd say put them in a polythene box (the kind of box they sell fish) filled with coarse grit at the bottom, then a layer of fine sand in which you put the seeds, 1cm (half an inch) coarse grit on top, and outside. I even had a few seeds growing after the second year doing that with a bag of "bonsai seeds" so if that doesn't work, keep watering the box until the 2nd spring... One of the seedlings (about 4-5 years, june 2007): ...and after drastic pruning (July 2007): I know that some of you may be skeptical, but "rendez-vous" in a couple of years... __________________ Alain K. http://www.rdb45.fr http://ak2.apinc.org/bdB

12-30-2007, 12:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
J-Bog Sage Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Boise, ID USDA Zone: 6A Posts: 63	Would it work okay if I got 100 peat discs and put each seed into its own disc then after it sprouts and grows a bit, transplant it into some good bonsai soil? Or should I really be using sand for these conifer seeds? __________________ "It is said that you should never leave anything to chance; but, in operating like that, chance never leaves anything to you."

12-30-2007, 10:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kansai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NE Kansas, S Texas Posts: 101	John--Can you be a little more specific about the type of sand to use and where to get it? Would Turface, straight out of the bag, be fine-grained enough? DR __________________ Bonsai is easy! All you have to do is stare at a little tree until drops of blood form on your forehead.--paraphrased from Gene Fowler

12-30-2007, 11:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
bonsaikc What're YOU lookin' at? Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ottawa, KS Posts: 155	Jbog, I suggest doing a little more homework on your subject. Just throwing out the question in a forum will get you some information, but what you want is definitive information. I suggest searching at other forums, but especially look for those who have had extensive experience and success at propagating from seed. http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/seed.htm In fact, Brent's site has some of the best, most precise information about all aspects of propagation for bonsai. It's how he makes his living. You can't get much better information. __________________ I am the 545th best crossword puzzle solver in the world! Sashi-no-eda Bonsai Blog

12-30-2007, 11:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
Prowler Deceased: 11/24/2008 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 361	J-B All advice that has been given is good, especially the outside part. A few years ago i dug up an area that was going to be for a barbecue, i lined the area with thick black poly. then a layer 3inch thick of gravel, but i never used it. Nature took over, any seedlings that grow are very easy to remove, just a simple tug and they are out, none of this large thick roots, the poly. stops that. If you have a garden just make a simple frame the size you need, scatter your seeds and stand back, no watering no feeding, put it in a shady area and that's it. As stated the seeds may need a couple of years to germinate, but you will find you have more success doing it this way. Cheers. __________________ Its hell out there, give them hell back.

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