Japanese black pine: how drastic is too drastic?

AlainK · 12-20-2008, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treebeard55

... But for us, a "typical" winter (if there is such a thing) means that at least once we get an overnite low of -29 C.

Brrrr!... I didn't realize winters were so harsh in Indiana! The only time I've met such temperatures in France was when I worked in a ski resort in the Alps (+2000 metres) in the eighties. I remembre the icicles in the moustache after using the shovel in the morning so as to make the ski-lift I was working on usable by the tourists.

I understand now. I promise to revise my geography

treebeard55 · 12-23-2008, 09:13 PM

I have some friends at church who lived many years in France. They assured me that the winters there are milder, and it was obvious they preferred the French climate! (They also told me how to correctly pronounce the name of your city.)

You may well be further north than we are -- I'd have to check a map. But most of western Europe has a milder climate because of the Gulf Stream. In this part of the USA, we're more than 1000 km from the moderating effect of any ocean, so both our winters and our summers tend to be more extreme.

artyanimal · 12-02-2010, 05:36 AM

Plan B seems best to me as A would leave too few needles to riciprocate the roots and thereby diminish the tree's ability make any real progress for qite some time. Laying off too many workers in your little factory will certainly effect the (pardon the pun) plant's production. Sacrifice is often a vital technique but, in this instance, I would temper this reality by going about it more slowly.

JBP back-bud quite easily so I think you can maintain healthy growth by forcing it down to the areas you want in a much less drastic fashion. Plan A would yeild little or no trunk or surface root thickening for a long, long time. Your root to new leader ratio in plan A would likely only result in a corresponding loss below the soil since the tree will certainly have to adjust itself to what happens above.

Cheers,

Arty

treebeard55 · 12-02-2010, 06:17 PM

Didn't realize I hadn't given an update about the fate of this tree. I'm afraid it failed to break dormancy in spring of 2009, and by mid-summer all signs of life had disappeared.

My best guess is that I subjected it to too many insults: major root work and significant cutting back, all in one season.

We live and learn.

artyanimal · 12-03-2010, 06:02 AM

Didn't realize I was responding to an outdated post. Guess I read so many yesterday I somehow got mixed up...Sheesh!

Sorry about your tree. For what its worth, I have had a couple spectacular failures with collected material when I began attempting to make the transition from reasonably adept at sub-topicals in Floirida to all but a complete rookie at conifers in Maine. Again...Sheesh!

Cheers,

Arty

Mike423 · 12-03-2010, 07:09 PM

I would recommend the slow subtraction method as well. If some new buds start to swell to form branches where desired, I would recommend making a slight cut above the bud. This sort of breaks the supply of energy further up on that section of the tree forcing the access energy to supply to the new desired branch.

12-23-2008, 09:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 510	I have some friends at church who lived many years in France. They assured me that the winters there are milder, and it was obvious they preferred the French climate! (They also told me how to correctly pronounce the name of your city.) You may well be further north than we are -- I'd have to check a map. But most of western Europe has a milder climate because of the Gulf Stream. In this part of the USA, we're more than 1000 km from the moderating effect of any ocean, so both our winters and our summers tend to be more extreme. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

12-02-2010, 06:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 510	Didn't realize I hadn't given an update about the fate of this tree. I'm afraid it failed to break dormancy in spring of 2009, and by mid-summer all signs of life had disappeared. My best guess is that I subjected it to too many insults: major root work and significant cutting back, all in one season. We live and learn. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

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12-02-2010, 05:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
artyanimal Snipologist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid-coast Maine / Zone 5 and S. Florida / Zone 10 Posts: 89	Plan B seems best to me as A would leave too few needles to riciprocate the roots and thereby diminish the tree's ability make any real progress for qite some time. Laying off too many workers in your little factory will certainly effect the (pardon the pun) plant's production. Sacrifice is often a vital technique but, in this instance, I would temper this reality by going about it more slowly. JBP back-bud quite easily so I think you can maintain healthy growth by forcing it down to the areas you want in a much less drastic fashion. Plan A would yeild little or no trunk or surface root thickening for a long, long time. Your root to new leader ratio in plan A would likely only result in a corresponding loss below the soil since the tree will certainly have to adjust itself to what happens above. Cheers, Arty

12-03-2010, 06:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
artyanimal Snipologist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid-coast Maine / Zone 5 and S. Florida / Zone 10 Posts: 89	Didn't realize I was responding to an outdated post. Guess I read so many yesterday I somehow got mixed up...Sheesh! Sorry about your tree. For what its worth, I have had a couple spectacular failures with collected material when I began attempting to make the transition from reasonably adept at sub-topicals in Floirida to all but a complete rookie at conifers in Maine. Again...Sheesh! Cheers, Arty

12-03-2010, 07:09 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 109	I would recommend the slow subtraction method as well. If some new buds start to swell to form branches where desired, I would recommend making a slight cut above the bud. This sort of breaks the supply of energy further up on that section of the tree forcing the access energy to supply to the new desired branch.

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