treebeard55

I've been talking (on this forum and "the other one") about the ponderosa pine I looked forward to getting at MABA2008. Time to tell a little about the getting, and post a pic or two.

Andy Smith, teacher in the workshop and owner of Golden Arrow Bonsai, had a nice selection of trees to choose from. We picked our trees in the order in which or our workshop reservations were received. I wasn't first. He who was showed his good taste by picking the tree I would have chosen, but I'm still very happy with the one I got.

My tree is about 80 years old. (Andy has reliable methods for estimating age.) There is a slight reverse taper near the base, enough to notice: it appears to be due to compression. My best guess is that the tree was growing between some rocks for who-knows-how-long, and those rocks eventually constricted the trunk's expansion.

Style,as you see, is slanting. For now the tree remains in its training pot. If all goes well, I'll buy a suitable permanent pot from Sara Raynor in a year or two. One of our club members in Fort Wayne does woodworking also, and I'll talk to him about a stand.

Sorry, pics will have to wait.

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Treebeard 55
Steve Moore
http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com

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treebeard55

Sorry I couldn't attach pictures yesterday. I'm using a public computer for the time being, and ran out of time.

First pic is of some of the trees for the workshop, beforehand.
Second is of my tree, before; third is of my tree, when finished for the day.

The raffia is just to protect the bark from damage during styling; it will come off this weekend if I have the time. The tree stands about 14" high from the soil line (guesstimate) and the trunk is roughly 1-1/2" in diameter.

Did anyone else on this forum go to MABA2008? (Besides Centaura.) If so, do you want to tell us about the treasures you brought home?

Attached Images

	Ponderosas for wkshp.jpg (87.2 KB, 44 views)
	Mine, before.JPG (94.3 KB, 47 views)
	Mine, after.JPG (85.3 KB, 55 views)

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Treebeard 55
Steve Moore
http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com

The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

treebeard55

A number of people advised me to repot my ponderosa as soon as I reasonably could: I live in a wetter part of North America than the tree came from, with at least twice the average annual precipitation. Andy Smith's mix is formulated for his climate out west, and would hold too much water here in mine.

The tree was healthy, so I did it on March 9. That was early -- we've had snow several times since -- but ponderosas are very cold-hardy, and I didn't want to make the same mistake I made with several pines last year. I didn't repot until the end of May (partly because of being so busy,) and by then most of the spring growth flush was already over. The trees' roots systems were never able to recover sufficiently. Among the trees I lost as a result was a very nice bunjin Pinus sylvestris (Scots pine.)

I used a nice, roomy growing box partly because I didn't know where the major roots ran, and partly because the tree is still adapting to my climate and a lower altitude; I wanted it to be under as little stress as possible. The inside dimensions of my home-made box are 9 inches by 12-1/2 inches, by 3 inches deep. (Sorry, I'm not sure of the metric conversion.) The bottom is hardware cloth with a 1/8-inch mesh.

The largest surface roots arise in one small area of the base, and run fairly close to each other; they must have all followed the wide crack in which the tree was growing in the wild. Imagine that you are looking down at the tree from above, with the movement of the trunk pointing to 12 o'clock on an imaginary clock face. The major surface roots all grow in the direction of the area between 2 and 3 on the clock face. That is on the side toward the chosen front for the tree, which is fortunate because I'm not going to be able to do much to change the nebari. I'm going to have to find a way to incorporate it in my design.

I used the soil recipe that Andy described at the workshop: 50% Turface, 40% grit, and 10% organics (in my case, composted bark.) Other ponderosa-bonsai growers in this part of the US use no organics at all, but I decided to follow Andy's recommendation. All the ingredients were sifted, and I used only particles between 3 and 4.5 mm.

I de-wired the tree at the same time, and some of the branches have since reverted, at least part-way, to their old positions. Once I'm sure the tree has recovered fully from repotting shock, I'll re-wire.

I've managed to protect it from sub-freezing temperatures since I repotted it (with the exception of one night.) Yes, ponderosas are hardy, but again, I wanted to minimize stress as the roots recover. It seems to be doing as well as I can expect, maintaining healthy color in its foliage.

Here are a few pictures.

Attached Images

	Ponderosa, before.jpg (73.0 KB, 11 views)
	Training box.JPG (72.2 KB, 7 views)
	Repotted and de-wired.JPG (71.3 KB, 17 views)

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Treebeard 55
Steve Moore
http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com

The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

Ml_work

I really like that pine, I like the fact nature need a super design on it. I have been looking at some of them on the site, I don't think I have the experience to try one yet.
ML

treebeard55

Thanks. Take your time. I'd been doing bonsai for over 10 years before I felt ready to tackle a collected ponderosa. Even now, as may come thru, I'm going slowly and carefully, and seeking plenty of advice. (One reason I'm eager for BT to come back up is so I can continue to pick the brains of John Kirby and others like him.)

"Collected" is a key word in what I said above. It's older (mine's 80+,) so the extra bounce-back-ability of any youthful organism isn't there any more. And it's worth a lot more, money-wise. And -- where would I ever get another just like it? No more possible than replacing one of your children.

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Treebeard 55
Steve Moore
http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com

The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

Dav4

I would wonder whether ponderosas can be grown long term in Alabama. I, for good or for bad, have had 2 very nice ponderosas for a few years that will moving with me to the greater Atlanta area. The folks down there have recommended against bringing them there as they feel the trees will slowly weaken and die after 6-8 seasons. I'm going to bring them down, though, an do my best to prove them wrong. If I were you, I would try a Japanese black pine as your first pine...very heat tolerant and generally tough as nails.

Dave

treebeard55

Andy Smith said that ponderosa bonsai do OK down to about the latitude of Memphis, TN. However, altitude makes a difference too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Atlanta a couple thousand feet above sea level?

Quito, Ecuador, where I grew up, is almost smack-dab on the equator itself; but it's also at 9300 ft altitude, and sycamores (plane trees to the Brits) were planted along the avenues. The poor things were constantly confused as to season, but they survived OK.

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Treebeard 55
Steve Moore
http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com

The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

Dav4

I think Atlanta is right at '1000 above sea level. I have heard from John Kirby that there are ponderosa bonsai growing as far south as Dallas...I'm going to do my best to keep them going in GA.

Dave

Ml_work

Quote:
Dave
The folks down there have recommended against bringing them there as they feel the trees will slowly weaken and die after 6-8 seasons.

Dave ...I do have a JBP (6yro) I got from Brussels in Oct last year. This will be my first summer so I will see what goes. I have 2 small JBP seedling (2-3 yro) that I got last year in march and they made it through the summer with new some new growth. At the same time last march I got 2 J5 needle seedling 2-3 yro. Very small, I put one in a 3 gal pot and one in 6" bonsai pot. Both are doing about the same, not much growth, but I do see a few new needles. I never thought about it taking 6-8 years before it dies because of climate....I thought it would die right off. So for me if it made it 6 years I would have thought it was me that killed it not the climate.
When I was at Brussels Bonsai last year that had some really nice (young) J 5 Needle pine (they do not list in the catalog or web site) I ask about purchase to bring here. The people at Brussels advised against it and most everyone that I talked to (they were from up north) said it would not make it here. But I don't blame you I would not want to part with the trees either.
ML

bonsaikc

"Old School" bonsai folk everywhere will insist that ponderosas can't be grown where they live. This is largely because they have never known how to keep them alive.

Pay attention to what John Kirby says. He is making quite a study of them and getting amazing results.

Chris

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