Air Layering Question

BONSAI_OUTLAW · 12-24-2007, 08:51 PM

Yes...

Mattbonsai · 12-25-2007, 03:40 PM

Vic, The Xylem vessels carry water up the tree, as each growing season passes new ones are formed, and the old ones die off, cutting the new live vessels, will cut the water supply to the foliage, killing the foliage and cambium above the cut vessel, causing the layer to fail.

To avoid this, what I have read is if you cut the ring of bark away, down to the cambium, then scrape a knife up and down the stem (where the bark has been removed) until there is no green visable (again being sure not to go too deep), this should be enough to encourage a reaction from the cambium, and not damage the Xylem vessels.

-Matt-

Shady Side Bonsai · 12-25-2007, 06:39 PM

Vic a trick in air layering is to let the cut dry a bit. This can be done several ways. As you mentioned, torching. This is not as drastic as it may seem. It is not like you are charring wood but more of lightly passing the flame over the cut band. This in turn drys the cut and will help with callous development which is critical in the development of new roots. Another technique used is the use of alcohol which will dry the the cut. Not quite a fast nor drastically as a flame but it is effective for easily rooted trees. The last is the old school way and that is to let your cut dry for a day or so to promote the beginning of a callous. To be honest, I have used this technique successfully, but don't like it. I guess its psychological. Knowing that my tree is sitting open and bare to the world...makes me fidget

Vic N · 12-26-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salvelinus

Here's an illustration I did a few years ago, on a now defunct site

Just get through the cambium (remove all the green) and you'll be fine. You don't need (or want) to remove much else. Another thing to keep in mind: make sure you keep the entire exposed area of wood protected from the external air. Otherwise, the xylem can dry out and the layered branch will not receive sap, and will die.

Hope this helps!

Salvelinus, Thanks for the reply and the illustration. When I made my cuts, all three layers came off at once. Everything came off very cleanly and the white wood was very slick and almost juicy. The branches I was layering did not die, they kept foliage and went through fall just like the rest of the parent tree. I had been watching for roots all summer, and finally checked in late fall. All I have is callousing that seems very heavy and even has developed below the upper cut of the ring. I don't know how many cell layers deep the xylem is but I know I've read about actually whittling into the ring of exposed wood, and I remembered reading about the torch or alcohol technique that Tom Brown mentions in a newer post. Since all of mine have not produced roots, I have to wonder if something like allowing the exposed wood to dry a bit, or use the alcohol to basically kill only the outermost layer of cells would help. Vic

Vic N · 12-26-2007, 01:40 AM

Thanks, Tom. I knew I had seen this info somewhere, but did not know the reasoning behind it. Vic

Shady Side Bonsai · 12-26-2007, 12:37 PM

Vic, keep the faith. As long as the callous hasn't bridged the cut you may very well still produce fruits from your labor. It once took me three years to get a very unique crab apple to layer. Talk about frustrated. I learned a lot of patience during that exercise. You may find it necessary to nic above the cambium late next spring if nothing shows. Keep at it, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Phil · 01-18-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BONSAI_OUTLAW

Yes...

Perhaps a more explicative answer would be better served and more helpful. Sorry, I don't get much of a chance to look at too many posts as of late and it's a bit of a luxury for me to do so at this time considering many factors concerning the site. Obviously others here here have taken up the question in more detail and I'm quite confident that J-Bog is most appreciative of the input as in regards to his question. This of course is just my opinion but it would seem that if one were to answer ones questions and concerns as to some given problem that perhaps a follow up reasoning, and or explanation to it should be given as to just a simple "yes' or "no" answer. In essence, it may indeed be an answer but I feel that J-Bog would have most assuredly appreciated the "why" as to a simple "yes" or "no". Many of the members on this site are here to learn and simply being told not to, or to do so helps them in no way. Just a simple opinion on my part and perhaps something to keep in consideration when answering ones questions or concerns as to ones problems and or questions.

~Phil

BONSAI_OUTLAW · 01-19-2008, 01:29 AM

Ok...

Vic N · 01-19-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Perhaps a more explicative answer would be better served and more helpful. Sorry, I don't get much of a chance to look at too many posts as of late and it's a bit of a luxury for me to do so at this time considering many factors concerning the site. Obviously others here here have taken up the question in more detail and I'm quite confident that J-Bog is most appreciative of the input as in regards to his question. This of course is just my opinion but it would seem that if one were to answer ones questions and concerns as to some given problem that perhaps a follow up reasoning, and or explanation to it should be given as to just a simple "yes' or "no" answer. In essence, it may indeed be an answer but I feel that J-Bog would have most assuredly appreciated the "why" as to a simple "yes" or "no". Many of the members on this site are here to learn and simply being told not to, or to do so helps them in no way. Just a simple opinion on my part and perhaps something to keep in consideration when answering ones questions or concerns as to ones problems and or questions.

~Phil

Quote:

Originally Posted by BONSAI_OUTLAW

Ok...

Phil's opinion .....2 cents
Bonsai Outlaw's response .... Free
Me, doing this

...... PRICELESS
Thanks, Vic

treebeard55 · 01-22-2008, 06:46 PM

Vic,

Ficus and some other tropicals take well to air-layering, and in favorable circumstances can throw new roots in as little as two weeks. If you're looking to learn technique, I suggest them as subjects.

12-25-2007, 03:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
Mattbonsai Tree Hugger In Training Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cheshire, GB Posts: 801	Vic, The Xylem vessels carry water up the tree, as each growing season passes new ones are formed, and the old ones die off, cutting the new live vessels, will cut the water supply to the foliage, killing the foliage and cambium above the cut vessel, causing the layer to fail. To avoid this, what I have read is if you cut the ring of bark away, down to the cambium, then scrape a knife up and down the stem (where the bark has been removed) until there is no green visable (again being sure not to go too deep), this should be enough to encourage a reaction from the cambium, and not damage the Xylem vessels. -Matt- __________________ -Matt- http://www.cheshirebonsaisociety.org.uk/index.html R.I.P Our Great Friend - Prowler, 24th November 2008

12-25-2007, 06:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
Shady Side Bonsai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glen Rock, Pa. Zone 6b Posts: 36	Vic a trick in air layering is to let the cut dry a bit. This can be done several ways. As you mentioned, torching. This is not as drastic as it may seem. It is not like you are charring wood but more of lightly passing the flame over the cut band. This in turn drys the cut and will help with callous development which is critical in the development of new roots. Another technique used is the use of alcohol which will dry the the cut. Not quite a fast nor drastically as a flame but it is effective for easily rooted trees. The last is the old school way and that is to let your cut dry for a day or so to promote the beginning of a callous. To be honest, I have used this technique successfully, but don't like it. I guess its psychological. Knowing that my tree is sitting open and bare to the world...makes me fidget __________________ Cheers, Tom Shady Side Bonsai Bonsai Vault 4MAAT

12-26-2007, 12:37 PM	#16 (permalink)
Shady Side Bonsai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glen Rock, Pa. Zone 6b Posts: 36	Vic, keep the faith. As long as the callous hasn't bridged the cut you may very well still produce fruits from your labor. It once took me three years to get a very unique crab apple to layer. Talk about frustrated. I learned a lot of patience during that exercise. You may find it necessary to nic above the cambium late next spring if nothing shows. Keep at it, nothing ventured nothing gained. __________________ Cheers, Tom Shady Side Bonsai Bonsai Vault 4MAAT

01-19-2008, 01:29 AM	#18 (permalink)
BONSAI_OUTLAW Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Woodstown, NJ Posts: 11	Ok... Last edited by BONSAI_OUTLAW; 01-19-2008 at 02:50 AM.. Reason: first response was too long...

01-22-2008, 06:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 510	Vic, Ficus and some other tropicals take well to air-layering, and in favorable circumstances can throw new roots in as little as two weeks. If you're looking to learn technique, I suggest them as subjects. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

12-24-2007, 08:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
BONSAI_OUTLAW Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Woodstown, NJ Posts: 11	Yes...

12-26-2007, 01:40 AM	#15 (permalink)
Vic N Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28	Thanks, Tom. I knew I had seen this info somewhere, but did not know the reasoning behind it. Vic

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