Looking for stand suggestions

centaura · 01-12-2008, 09:40 AM

Hmmm... I really like the second pot in your 1st post on pots. The light green one that was a little deeper. This guy likes a deeper pot, and the light green would go with his white flowers. Did you find those pots on a particular website?

-Centaura

Rick Moquin · 01-12-2008, 10:51 AM

They were all selected from bonsai monk. Yes the green is suitable as a colour fro this tree. The other colours were for variety more than anything else. It all depends when the tree is portrayed/displayed whci colour you would go with. When in bloom your selection is a good one, and should be alright when baring fruit, but the wrong one for a winter silhouette. Which 1,4 and 8 would be better suited.

As with regards to the pot depth, the illustrated pots were for colour and shape vice depth. The depth of the pot equals the trunk diameter for display. If this tree is to be judged, then this is important. Over time with root pruning and subsequent repotting this will become a moot point. If the tree is not ready then why show it? But having said that, there is nothing wrong for displaying the tree in a deeper pot, keeping in mind this will not be its final pot.

Configuration (shape) is more important than depth, it has everything to do with the aesthetics of the tree. As Robert Steven would say. Bonsai = tree in pot. 2 words and each hold 50% of the other so both pot and tree are important.

At present your tree is sitting a little high in the pot. When repotting reduce the thickness of the root bad, hollowing out the centre in favour of the radial roots or do not place as much soil beneath the tree. I don't know only you can answer these questions of why it is sitting so high.

As I explained to Matt in another post if you have a 2 inch trunk then the thickness of the mat should be about 1 inch, giving you 1/2 top and bottom for growth. When the tree grows out of the pot e.g roots start appearing at the surface or the mat is so thick that the water no longer drains freely, then it is time to repot. As watering, repotting does not necessarily have to be done on a schedule. However during the developmental stages, you want to go as far as possible between repotting when work (heavy) is conducted above and below the soil line, as I am an advocate that heavy work occurs in alternate seasons, whereas maintenance work is conducted on established bonsai. Feel free to ask if anything is unclear, I'll try and elaborate.

centaura · 01-12-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Yes the green is suitable as a colour for this tree. . . . It all depends when the tree is portrayed/displayed which colour you would go with. When in bloom your selection is a good one, and should be alright when baring fruit, but the wrong one for a winter silhouette.

It will probably be in two non-judged shows in May, a judged show in August, and another very small non-judged show in Oct. In fact the picture at the top of the thread was from the show last Oct. - the reason the tree wasn't heavily pruned was because it had been in a much bigger, formal show in August which it had been pruned for, and I didn't want to heavily trim it again that soon.

The winter silhouette I won't have to worry about, I don't think this species takes to total defoliation (at least I haven't found that info out yet and won't try it until I know - its a tropical so that would be only way it would be bare), so it will probably never been shown bare.

Quote:

I don't know only you can answer these questions of why it is sitting so high.

Its still in a transitional period for root reduction. I've attached a picture of the tree from last July, showing the training pot that it was in before the current pot. The previous owner said that it was a bit sensitive to having its roots messed with, so I was going slowly and only pruning small amounts off the roots. I appreciate the pot ideas, and will be getting it a new pot, though it will wait another year before I repot it since it was just repotted last July.

Quote:

If the tree is not ready then why show it?

I know the tree is not completely ready, but I have been showing it because my clubs need their members to participate, even with trees that are in development. We almost had a disaster last May when no one thought their trees were ready, so almost no one brought trees to the May show. A public show at a large botanic gardens, and we were scrambling to get things to show. The general public is not aware of how undeveloped the trees are, and its nice to be able to talk with other club members and get their ideas for future development. Last August, though the show was judged, I brought the tree for exhibit only since I knew I didn't have a final display for it and it wasn't up for judging. But it was still nice to have something to show.

I've really appreciated this thread, as I do want to have a nice display for this tree as it matures. This thread has had a lot of info which has been helpful in my future plans for this tree.

-Centaura

JLDoggett · 01-12-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by centaura

The winter silhouette I won't have to worry about, I don't think this species takes to total defoliation (at least I haven't found that info out yet and won't try it until I know - its a tropical so that would be only way it would be bare), so it will probably never been shown bare.
-Centaura

Centaura

They dislike to be defoliated, at least in colder climes. I tried it on one of my smaller ones and the branches just died. It did back bud on the trunk, but it has never looked the same...

I find heavy pruning (cutting back to 1-2 sets of leaves) gives better results. You can get nice back-budding on the branch, just remember to seal the wounds.

Rick Moquin · 01-12-2008, 02:22 PM

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Did I mess up! All the while I am thinking Crab Apple vice brush cherry, not that, that makes a difference, but of course the whole winter silhouette thing for this tree does not apply.

I never recommend total defoliation neither. Some folks use this method as a quick step towards ramification but is anything but IMO. So please don't and as JL pointed out, they don't like it.

Now that you have given us a little more info to chew on it makes allot of sense. Your chosen route is a careful one and fully understandable.

The green pot you have selected is a good match and you might also want to consider 1 and 5. 4 was destined towards a winter silhouette but would indeed clash when in bloom.

Edit: You may do a slip pot, which doesn't involve the tree perse. A slip pot is basically just a container change, no work to be conducted. If the tree is in good health, I don't believe this will hurt it, including natal plums. The advantage of slip potting, you have now given yourself two years to do top work, vice bottom work. The question only you can answer is which one is most important at this time? No one knows better than you what needs to be done to this tree. The 2 year potting cycle provides bottom one year, followed by a recuperation period of basically slight maintenance, whilst the following year is concentrated on the top (more drastic) allowed to grow unimpeded and root work the follwoing year during repotting. Well at least that is my understanding behind the purpose of the repotting cycle, not to mention replacing the substrate that could well indeed be spent.

centaura · 01-12-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

I find heavy pruning (cutting back to 1-2 sets of leaves) gives better results. You can get nice back-budding on the branch, just remember to seal the wounds.

Thanks for the info - that's what I've been doing so far, and I think I'm making progress on its ramification. I really should take some top and side pics of this guy, the 2-D image just doesn't do its depth justice.

Quote:

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Did I mess up! All the while I am thinking Crab Apple

No worries, this thread has gotten much farther in depth that the initial query - and I think the first post is the only one that said it was a natal plum (carris

.

Quote:

The question only you can answer is which one is most important at this time? No one knows better than you what needs to be done to this tree. The 2 year potting cycle provides bottom one year, followed by a recuperation period of basically slight maintenance, whilst the following year is concentrated on the top (more drastic) allowed to grow unimpeded and root work the follwoing year during repotting.

The repotting done last July was almost a slip-pot. I did very little to the roots, partly to be safe and partly since it was mid-summer. It grows so fast all through the summer that I felt I could repot then, as long as I didn't do too much root work. And it did keep growing, enough that I trimmed a good bit off before the August show and it was leggy again in Oct.

Even though it wasn't drastic, I think I'm still going to wait another year before repotting it, and do some branch work this year. I'm happy with the primary branches where they are, though there's some secondary branches that I want to work on, especially in the apex. I also want to get a little more definition/direction in the apex, hence the one branch that's sticking up in the first shot. My main goal is the tertiary branch developement - the secondary branches on the first two primary branches are very straight, and I am working on clip and growing them into more ramification. Right now I don't see anything that I would be doing that was 'drastic' to the tree, there is only one more small branch that I am planning on removing. Now I am working on ramification and defining foliage pads.

That feeling that the tree was working its way towards is final image was what had prompted me to start thinking of the way to 'officially' display it. I've been casual with its display so far, partly since it was not a finished tree, and partly since it was being shown in very informal shows. But I would like to submit it for judging eventually at the Chicago show - that is the goal that I'm working towards now. I've attached the photo again with some notes on the main areas where I think I still need to do work, and I'll try to take some top and side pics this weekend.

-Centaura

centaura · 01-16-2008, 01:04 PM

I took some more photos of this tree, and have gotten them uploaded. One of the things I like about the tree is its depth, which doesn't show up real well in the straight, front-on shots. So, I did a pic of up under the canopy, some side shots and a top shot. Of course, it hasn't been pruned since last August, and won't be pruned until April/May, or whenever I can get it back outdoors. That is especially apparent in the top photo, where you can see the long straight young branches.

This just turned into such an indepth discussion of this tree I thought I'd add more photos.

-Centaura

Rick Moquin · 01-16-2008, 01:36 PM

Base on what I have sen here, it is due for a repot, as the tree is in gact growing out of the pot. It IMO will not fair well next season without it.

01-12-2008, 10:51 AM	#23 (permalink)
Rick Moquin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dartmouth, NS Zone 5a/b Posts: 186	They were all selected from bonsai monk. Yes the green is suitable as a colour fro this tree. The other colours were for variety more than anything else. It all depends when the tree is portrayed/displayed whci colour you would go with. When in bloom your selection is a good one, and should be alright when baring fruit, but the wrong one for a winter silhouette. Which 1,4 and 8 would be better suited. As with regards to the pot depth, the illustrated pots were for colour and shape vice depth. The depth of the pot equals the trunk diameter for display. If this tree is to be judged, then this is important. Over time with root pruning and subsequent repotting this will become a moot point. If the tree is not ready then why show it? But having said that, there is nothing wrong for displaying the tree in a deeper pot, keeping in mind this will not be its final pot. Configuration (shape) is more important than depth, it has everything to do with the aesthetics of the tree. As Robert Steven would say. Bonsai = tree in pot. 2 words and each hold 50% of the other so both pot and tree are important. At present your tree is sitting a little high in the pot. When repotting reduce the thickness of the root bad, hollowing out the centre in favour of the radial roots or do not place as much soil beneath the tree. I don't know only you can answer these questions of why it is sitting so high. As I explained to Matt in another post if you have a 2 inch trunk then the thickness of the mat should be about 1 inch, giving you 1/2 top and bottom for growth. When the tree grows out of the pot e.g roots start appearing at the surface or the mat is so thick that the water no longer drains freely, then it is time to repot. As watering, repotting does not necessarily have to be done on a schedule. However during the developmental stages, you want to go as far as possible between repotting when work (heavy) is conducted above and below the soil line, as I am an advocate that heavy work occurs in alternate seasons, whereas maintenance work is conducted on established bonsai. Feel free to ask if anything is unclear, I'll try and elaborate. __________________ Bonsai is the journey, not the destination Bonsai Wonders

01-12-2008, 02:22 PM	#26 (permalink)
Rick Moquin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dartmouth, NS Zone 5a/b Posts: 186	Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Did I mess up! All the while I am thinking Crab Apple vice brush cherry, not that, that makes a difference, but of course the whole winter silhouette thing for this tree does not apply. I never recommend total defoliation neither. Some folks use this method as a quick step towards ramification but is anything but IMO. So please don't and as JL pointed out, they don't like it. Now that you have given us a little more info to chew on it makes allot of sense. Your chosen route is a careful one and fully understandable. The green pot you have selected is a good match and you might also want to consider 1 and 5. 4 was destined towards a winter silhouette but would indeed clash when in bloom. Edit: You may do a slip pot, which doesn't involve the tree perse. A slip pot is basically just a container change, no work to be conducted. If the tree is in good health, I don't believe this will hurt it, including natal plums. The advantage of slip potting, you have now given yourself two years to do top work, vice bottom work. The question only you can answer is which one is most important at this time? No one knows better than you what needs to be done to this tree. The 2 year potting cycle provides bottom one year, followed by a recuperation period of basically slight maintenance, whilst the following year is concentrated on the top (more drastic) allowed to grow unimpeded and root work the follwoing year during repotting. Well at least that is my understanding behind the purpose of the repotting cycle, not to mention replacing the substrate that could well indeed be spent. __________________ Bonsai is the journey, not the destination Bonsai Wonders Last edited by Rick Moquin; 01-12-2008 at 02:33 PM..

01-16-2008, 01:36 PM	#29 (permalink)
Rick Moquin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dartmouth, NS Zone 5a/b Posts: 186	Base on what I have sen here, it is due for a repot, as the tree is in gact growing out of the pot. It IMO will not fair well next season without it. __________________ Bonsai is the journey, not the destination Bonsai Wonders

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-12-2008, 09:40 AM	#22 (permalink)
centaura Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 334	Hmmm... I really like the second pot in your 1st post on pots. The light green one that was a little deeper. This guy likes a deeper pot, and the light green would go with his white flowers. Did you find those pots on a particular website? -Centaura

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)