Glider

That looks very lush and healthy and seasonally, far in advance of mine. The first flush of leaves on mine haven't unfolded fully yet. I see what you mean about not being able to see the structure. Not a bad thing though, it shows it's vigorous and you don't have any problems with its health.

As for leaf size, in the general scheme of things, ensmallening the leaves is usually the last task in bonsai. It comes under 'refinement' just before 'maintenance grooming'.

You would normally do this after the trunk, branches and twigs are all where you want them to be. At that stage, you would begin a cycle of defoliation; removing all the leaves around early/mid June to encourage a 'second spring'. The result is (more or less) twice as many leaves, each half the size.

However, reducing leaf size is not the primary aim of defoliation. The main aim of defoliation is to increase fine ramification. As the number of terminal twigs increases and the twigs get finer, the leaf size will reduce as a function of those factors. The immediate leaf reduction through defoliation is only temporary. It will produce smaller leaves for the rest of that season, but that's because the tree has been weakened (it used its stored reserves in producing the first flush of leaves and has to work hard to produce the second), but the following year, the leaves will be larger again.

It's only when you have achieved very fine and dense ramification that the tree will begin to produce smaller leaves naturally. This can take a few seasons to happen.

So, the problem you have is that to produce naturally smaller leaves, you need to increase fine ramification and that's something you can only do when the branches are finished, and that's something you can only do when the trunk is finished.

If you feel the trunk or branches still need to be enbiggened, then defoliating will actually work against your objective. Leaves are the food factories of the tree. The larger the total leaf area, the more food the tree produces and the more wood it will put on (mainly to support the large leaf area. It’s a reciprocal kind of thing).

You can produce a flush of temporarily ensmallened leaves this summer by defoliating in June, but as I say, that weakens the tree and slows overall growth and development, and next spring, they’ll be big again anyway. It’s really up to you to decide what you want to achieve and when.

If the tree were mine (and I accept that it isn’t), and given that I can’t really see the structure at all, but I can see it’s still quite young, I would hesitate to defoliate for smaller leaves because that would slow the tree down. I would be more inclined to maintenance prune for this year, with the aim of redistributing energy to balance the growth. All those long stems from the top I would clip back quite hard, and the long stems from the growing ends of the lower branches I would also take back, but not quite so hard.

I would encourage growth from the inner portions of the branches and particularly from the lower branches. I would let them extend more than the top growth before each pruning. After a season of that, come Autumn when the leaves are gone, I would have a good look to see what I had to work with. Then I might do some more serious, structural pruning for form and shape. Next year, I’d rinse and repeat.

I would do it all with a view that I might take off all the branches eventually anyway, depending on how the trunk was doing, and start over. I’ve done this with one of mine (see below). I’ll let that one go a bit this year (and possibly next) and once the trunk chop scar has healed better and the taper has improved, I’ll take off all the top branches again and start with new ones. In the meantime, I’ll begin to develop shoots that appear lower on the trunk as primary branches (this will mean there’s at least a year or two between ascending sets of branches so their final thickness and development will be naturally smaller, the higher up the tree they are).

I’ll keep doing that until I’m happy with the taper and the branch placement, then I’ll start concentrating on branch ramification. At the moment, the trunk (which has more movement than is apparent in those very poor photographs) is 3” wide at the point just above the soil and it is 12” tall (a 4:1 ratio). By the time the final form takes shape, it should be around 6:1. I won’t let it get much taller after that, but it will continue to thicken as the lower branches continue to develop.

I think the final form should begin to be apparent in another five years or so. I predict (hopefully) that it’ll be worth showing to other people (e.g. on these forums) in another ten years, but I won’t be thinking about reducing leaf size until then.

It all takes time but you should never worry about that. The tree in the photo I got in 2001 as a 1 year old seedling. It’s taken 7 years so far and I’m quite content to give it as long as it takes. The point is that I have enjoyed this tree every year I’ve had it. It has taught me a huge amount and even though it’s just a stump in a pot, it’s my stump in a pot.

If you think about your tree in a similar way, I think you’ll get more out of it in the long term (and bonsai is always about the long term).

Attached Images

	2007.jpg (88.1 KB, 14 views)
	2008.jpg (51.8 KB, 12 views)

Ml_work

Glider,
As I just finished my 6th copy and paste of "Trident Maples" notes, I thank you again.
The picture of your maple is promising, a one year seedling and 7 yr later it looks great. I had no idea the trunk could grow that amount in 7 yr time.
The trunk on mine is S shaped already, as I said I did not realize it until I got it home. I prefer the upright style for most bonsai (not that I have any, just from the ones I have seen).
I understand about the large leaves helping the trunk to grow. I am tempted to cut back this one time this summer just to watch and learn. But either way, if I do only this one time I will hold off and let the tree grow for trunk size and a bit more height. I will post a view when the leaves are gone for the winter, for ideas on shaping.

Have A Great Day!
ML

Prowler

Glider
Very nice indeed, now a question? are you ever bothered by the dreaded black spot that you usually get in damp summers? If so how do you deal with that. CHEERS.

__________________
Its hell out there, give them hell back.

Glider

It spent three years in a prepared bed in the ground, which always helps. Rather than just let it get very tall, I took out the leader at the end of the first year and it put out 5 new leaders which took off the following Spring. The trunk bulked up hugely that year.
I tend to prefer a more natural movement in trunk as well, which is why I have only encouraged a gentle movement in the tree I posted.

I think the more dramatic trunk lines work better in conifers (e.g. pine and juniper), but tend to look a bit contrived in many broadleafed deciduous trees, particularly maples, which naturally tend to have more graceful 'feminine' lines anyway.

Although the trident is probably the most masculine of all maples, I feel this is due mainly to the bulk of their trunks rather than a tortured and battered form.

Maples tend not to grow in the environments that encourage those dramatic, twisting trunk lines and so (unless you are styling it like a pine), it's hard to get a maple to look natural in those forms.

This is only my personal opinion/preference though. I completely disregard my own opinion when it comes to azaleas. For example a few of my azaleas have quite dramatic lines (or will, once they're more developed), but then for some reason, azaleas seem to be more able to carry it off than maples.

By all means, have a go at it this year. It'll give you a chance to see properly what you're working with and it will increase ramification too, which will give you more choice next year. There's plenty of time.

You too!

You mean Tar Spot? No, I've never been bothered by that. I wouldn't worry too much if I was. It's not life threatening to the tree (doesn't really do the tree any significant damage at all) and is not hard to deal with.

It makes the tree unsightly for half a year (the spots don't really manifest till late summer anyway), but the main problem is the fallen leaves. The fungus overwinters on the fallen leaves and come spring, the spots crack and release millions of needle like spores that are picked up and spread around on the breeze. This is what infects the tree for that year.

If you have a problem with it, the simplest solution is to take fallen leaves away as soon as they're down and burn them, or dispose of them outside of your garden, just get them well away from your trees. You won't have a problem the following year then. It's more of a problem if your neighbour has an infected tree and is too lazy to rake the leaves up.

However, tar spot tends to be quite specific to particular maples, so it's unlikely an infected field maple or sycamore next door would infect your bonsai, unless they're also field maples or sycamores.