Cut Paste Questions

Mike423 · 02-22-2011, 03:36 PM

I have some questiones about cut paste and figured i'd see if anyone could shed some light on these subjects for me. Hopefully this will be an interesting topic.

Is there any difference between the tube type and the small tub Japanese cut paste? Such as Karusmate, Shin-Kiyonal or Top Jin M-Paste (not sure if I got the names right since the writings always in Japanese)?

I also I have seen some sources say (concerning the tub type) that the green cap type should be used for Azaleas and Evergreens, but have then heard others say that the white cap variant can be used just the same? Does one serve the cause better than another or does it not make difference?

And finally has anyone found any studies done on how long cut past can last for and or if its shelf life can be extended after opening by storing it in any specific manner? I have heard how long its application use can last but never any mentions of its storage life.

-Mike

Salvelinus · 02-22-2011, 07:33 PM

I've never heard of the storage life, either. I like the paste type for larger wounds. Don't know what the difference in the tubs is besides color? Small wounds are easier to touch up with the liquid wound dressing. I absolutely HATE kiyonal and will never use it again. It does not come off without damaging bark. The others are better (but I can't for the life of me remember which is which). The orange, runny liquid dressing is supposed to have ingredients that speed healing, especially for azaleas, but it makes the wounds orange. If you can live with that, it's easy to paint on, but use a brush unless you want an orange finger. I do think wounds heal faster with this dressing. The other one (Top Jin?) is also good, and is a better color.

Sorry for the less-than-detailed answer, but I just don't worry too much about which to use. They all seem to work fine, and do what they are supposed to do...seal the cambium to prevent drying and die-back. What makes much more difference in wound healing is how you prepare the wound base. I spend much time getting that right and am rewarded, whereas if I am sloppy with the wound it doesn't matter what kind of paste is on it--it will heal poorly if at all.

philgrayser · 02-23-2011, 07:53 AM

Hi guys, ive used the stuff that comes in a tub (Its a bit like play-doh) and it seals the wound fine but after a few months it dries out and basically falls to bits so has to be re-applied!! so i started to use the stuff from a tube and found it to be far superior. Just my two cents cheers phil G

Salvelinus · 02-23-2011, 07:23 PM

Actually, Phil, that's what makes that paste so good. It's pushed off by healing tissue, and nothing is left to spoil the tree. That means that the cambium is protected by callous and does not need to be protected any longer. No need to reapply.

philgrayser · 02-24-2011, 07:10 AM

Thanks for the input Salvelinus. heres me thinking that the paste was crap too eh haha! As they say you learn something new every day. Cheers Phil G

Mike423 · 02-26-2011, 09:08 PM

Salvelinus, I think if I remember right one of my local club members told me that the Kiyonal paste is meant to be used more for gluing type work on the trees. Which would explain its unwillingness to be removed.

Salvelinus · 02-27-2011, 05:15 PM

Interesting. For gluing what? I would think a white or wood glue would be best for deadwood. OTOH, I can see using Kiyonal for gluing on pieces of bark to hide something on the trunk.

Mike423 · 02-27-2011, 05:45 PM

I'm not really sure but I would assume for gluing and sealing on a partially broken branch, o used as a grafting aid, etc..

treebeard55 · 03-09-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salvelinus

.... What makes much more difference in wound healing is how you prepare the wound base. I spend much time getting that right and am rewarded, whereas if I am sloppy with the wound it doesn't matter what kind of paste is on it--it will heal poorly if at all.

Salvelinus, would you mind expanding on that, please? Sounds like useful knowledge!

Rowdy · 03-09-2011, 10:54 AM

i can only attest to the longevity of the tub type. i was heavy into bonsai about 10 years ago, was away and had a nasty storm wipe out alot of my collection, and just drifted away from it. i just recently got back to it and dug out my old supplies the tub of cut paste i had "green cap" was as fresh as it was the day i got it. now if only my tools hadent rusted beyond repair..

02-22-2011, 03:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 114	Cut Paste Questions I have some questiones about cut paste and figured i'd see if anyone could shed some light on these subjects for me. Hopefully this will be an interesting topic. Is there any difference between the tube type and the small tub Japanese cut paste? Such as Karusmate, Shin-Kiyonal or Top Jin M-Paste (not sure if I got the names right since the writings always in Japanese)? I also I have seen some sources say (concerning the tub type) that the green cap type should be used for Azaleas and Evergreens, but have then heard others say that the white cap variant can be used just the same? Does one serve the cause better than another or does it not make difference? And finally has anyone found any studies done on how long cut past can last for and or if its shelf life can be extended after opening by storing it in any specific manner? I have heard how long its application use can last but never any mentions of its storage life. -Mike

02-22-2011, 07:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Salvelinus Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Greater Cincinnati, USA Posts: 98	I've never heard of the storage life, either. I like the paste type for larger wounds. Don't know what the difference in the tubs is besides color? Small wounds are easier to touch up with the liquid wound dressing. I absolutely HATE kiyonal and will never use it again. It does not come off without damaging bark. The others are better (but I can't for the life of me remember which is which). The orange, runny liquid dressing is supposed to have ingredients that speed healing, especially for azaleas, but it makes the wounds orange. If you can live with that, it's easy to paint on, but use a brush unless you want an orange finger. I do think wounds heal faster with this dressing. The other one (Top Jin?) is also good, and is a better color. Sorry for the less-than-detailed answer, but I just don't worry too much about which to use. They all seem to work fine, and do what they are supposed to do...seal the cambium to prevent drying and die-back. What makes much more difference in wound healing is how you prepare the wound base. I spend much time getting that right and am rewarded, whereas if I am sloppy with the wound it doesn't matter what kind of paste is on it--it will heal poorly if at all. __________________ Namaste, --Scott ><> "There seems to be no survivors to interview, but I suspect [kamikaze pilots] did not shout 'traytree' the moment before their personal sacrifice." --Herb Gustafson

02-23-2011, 07:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
Salvelinus Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Greater Cincinnati, USA Posts: 98	Actually, Phil, that's what makes that paste so good. It's pushed off by healing tissue, and nothing is left to spoil the tree. That means that the cambium is protected by callous and does not need to be protected any longer. No need to reapply. __________________ Namaste, --Scott ><> "There seems to be no survivors to interview, but I suspect [kamikaze pilots] did not shout 'traytree' the moment before their personal sacrifice." --Herb Gustafson

02-27-2011, 05:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Salvelinus Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Greater Cincinnati, USA Posts: 98	Interesting. For gluing what? I would think a white or wood glue would be best for deadwood. OTOH, I can see using Kiyonal for gluing on pieces of bark to hide something on the trunk. __________________ Namaste, --Scott ><> "There seems to be no survivors to interview, but I suspect [kamikaze pilots] did not shout 'traytree' the moment before their personal sacrifice." --Herb Gustafson

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

02-23-2011, 07:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
philgrayser philgrayser Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 132	Hi guys, ive used the stuff that comes in a tub (Its a bit like play-doh) and it seals the wound fine but after a few months it dries out and basically falls to bits so has to be re-applied!! so i started to use the stuff from a tube and found it to be far superior. Just my two cents cheers phil G

02-24-2011, 07:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
philgrayser philgrayser Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 132	Thanks for the input Salvelinus. heres me thinking that the paste was crap too eh haha! As they say you learn something new every day. Cheers Phil G

02-26-2011, 09:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 114	Salvelinus, I think if I remember right one of my local club members told me that the Kiyonal paste is meant to be used more for gluing type work on the trees. Which would explain its unwillingness to be removed.

02-27-2011, 05:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 114	I'm not really sure but I would assume for gluing and sealing on a partially broken branch, o used as a grafting aid, etc..

03-09-2011, 10:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
Rowdy Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Brick, New Jersey, 6b Posts: 14	i can only attest to the longevity of the tub type. i was heavy into bonsai about 10 years ago, was away and had a nasty storm wipe out alot of my collection, and just drifted away from it. i just recently got back to it and dug out my old supplies the tub of cut paste i had "green cap" was as fresh as it was the day i got it. now if only my tools hadent rusted beyond repair..

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)