Tropicals grown in ground??

Mike423 · 12-12-2010, 12:26 PM

I know most temperate/tropicals cant be field grown in climates where there are harsh winters (obviously). I have a few tropicals I would like to fatten up quick and was wondering if it would do any good planting them outside in the spring and then digging them up before the first frost date? Or would just be too much work and stress the trees out as well, digging them out before they could get situated and begin to really grow?

I also have a Brazilian Rain tree with a mostly finished look but the nebari on it is misshapen and was wondering if I could try to promote a new or additional root system better by placing it the ground over summer? Would anyone have any advice or experience with root work on this species? I was also thinking about simply gouging out some spots near ground level, dusting them with rooting hormone and placing some Sphagnum moss down to promote new roots while in pot. I am just unsure as to what rooting/grafting technique to use in order to add to the nebari due to seeing first hand this species sensitivity and habit for die back of the cambrian layer.

-Mike

treebeard55 · 12-12-2010, 01:32 PM

Mike, I live in pretty much the same climate zone as you, and I've wondered the same thing. This past summer I put 5 tropicals into a landscaping bed, as if they were annuals, to try to get a feel for if it was worth it. They were in the ground for about 4 months, give or take.

Impression so far: for a vigorous, fast-growing species like Ficus microcarpa, it may well be worth pursuing further. For something slower-growing, like Pachira insignis (a.k.a. money tree,) it's not worth it; whatever is gained in-ground seems to be canceled out by the extra root disturbance at potting-back-up.

Some time soon I want to do a controlled experiment with a dozen or so little trees -- ideally, all rooted cuttings from the same parent plant -- but haven't had the chance yet.

On a related note: serissa, as most of us are finding, are subtropical or warm-temperate, not the tropicals we've so long considered them to be. Bill Swain, in MA, is experimenting with leaving a serissa or two in-ground thru the winter. If his survive, I may just stretch the envelope and repeat the experiment here -- but with a couple of plants I can afford to lose if it comes to that.

artyanimal · 12-15-2010, 05:37 AM

I agree with treebeard55's observations about the gain v. cancellation ratio.

If you have the room and want bigger trunks, I'd use bigger pots and (liquid) ferts low in nitrogen and high in phosphous and potassium and leave them in their normal growing area.

The same type of ferts will help a lot with your raintree's roots too.

You can also try other things to make nebari improvements as I did with this willow leaf ficus. I simply drilled a whole in the root I wanted to improve and stuck in and rooted a cutting which then fused with the larger root. After it took the 'branch' part of the cutting was removed. I'll try and get an updated pic today, that is if I can find it. Everything I own is piled on top of each other in my greenhouse as we are having some really cold weather here in So. Florida. Sheesh!

Mike423 · 12-15-2010, 04:17 PM

I was contemplating trying the approach grafting method, as well as the thread grafting method you mentioned (artyanimal), but am new to grafting practices and am worried about the cambrian layer dieing where the cut is made or hole drilled due to this trees die back rate when pruning is done. I was also thinking of redoing the entire nebari by doing a ground layering or tourniquet layering at the base, but I already have some pretty thick roots in some places and it would be a long process to get new nebari as thick as some of the current roots are.

artyanimal · 12-16-2010, 01:11 AM

Here is a close up of the root after the cutting was removed. It does leave an obvious little stump that can be filed down or dug out with concave cutters. Otherwise its really a very straight forward fairly simple process. I will now feed it for the rest of the winter with the low nitrogen ferts and it should thicken nicely as originally intended.

Raintrees like the ficus fuse rather quickly and drilling a whole (even many) should have little or no effect and the risk is actually very minimal, at least thus far for me anyway.

Cheers,

Arty

artyanimal · 12-16-2010, 01:28 AM

Sorry, did not mention that I forgot to take a pic of the fused branch before removal. By comparison, the rest of the tree by then (5 mos. or so) looked like this.

Mike423 · 12-16-2010, 06:27 PM

Thanks for the reassurance Arty, maybe ill acquire some rain tree seeds and grow some seedlings soon to get ready to do a thread graft this summer (or just wait until my tree makes some seeds for me). If all goes well I'll try a few more the next summer.

As for field growing some tropical's, I think I will grow a ficus and a few others in pots with the bottoms cut out, so the roots can grow into the ground. Maybe that way it wount be as detrimental to them when I have to move them and bring them back in for the winter since I wont be messing with the roots as much. Less work too

artyanimal · 12-17-2010, 03:36 AM

Peat moss may help a little. It actually generates heat as it decomposes so you might consider insulating the pots going it the ground with it and also mix some into the soil underneath.

As for grafting and fusing, so long as you have a humid warm place to start them, cuttings will strike from last year's semi-hardened/hardened growth. So maybe save them when you trim and give it a try. Just treat them like any other cutting.

Cheers,

Arty

Mike423 · 01-08-2011, 10:26 AM

Hey Arty I forgot to ask, since you seem to have some experience with Brazilian Rain trees if you could give me some advice. I was wondering if you knew what pH preference they have and if they flower on old growth? Also if you have any other insightful info or discover tips or tricks with them I would appreciate it (as well as from anyone else that owns a Brazilian rain tree). I only have had mine for less than a year an since I live in the Midwest I cant seem to find anyone with any real experience with them. They have some general info online (light & water requirements) but no real in depth info like with some other species.

Thanks
-Mike

treebeard55 · 01-08-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike423

... I think I will grow a ficus and a few others in pots with the bottoms cut out, so the roots can grow into the ground. Maybe that way it won't be as detrimental to them when I have to move them and bring them back in for the winter, since I wont be messing with the roots as much.

That sounds like it just might work! Keep us posted.

12-12-2010, 12:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 114	Tropicals grown in ground?? I know most temperate/tropicals cant be field grown in climates where there are harsh winters (obviously). I have a few tropicals I would like to fatten up quick and was wondering if it would do any good planting them outside in the spring and then digging them up before the first frost date? Or would just be too much work and stress the trees out as well, digging them out before they could get situated and begin to really grow? I also have a Brazilian Rain tree with a mostly finished look but the nebari on it is misshapen and was wondering if I could try to promote a new or additional root system better by placing it the ground over summer? Would anyone have any advice or experience with root work on this species? I was also thinking about simply gouging out some spots near ground level, dusting them with rooting hormone and placing some Sphagnum moss down to promote new roots while in pot. I am just unsure as to what rooting/grafting technique to use in order to add to the nebari due to seeing first hand this species sensitivity and habit for die back of the cambrian layer. -Mike Last edited by Mike423; 12-12-2010 at 12:31 PM..

12-12-2010, 01:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 511	Mike, I live in pretty much the same climate zone as you, and I've wondered the same thing. This past summer I put 5 tropicals into a landscaping bed, as if they were annuals, to try to get a feel for if it was worth it. They were in the ground for about 4 months, give or take. Impression so far: for a vigorous, fast-growing species like Ficus microcarpa, it may well be worth pursuing further. For something slower-growing, like Pachira insignis (a.k.a. money tree,) it's not worth it; whatever is gained in-ground seems to be canceled out by the extra root disturbance at potting-back-up. Some time soon I want to do a controlled experiment with a dozen or so little trees -- ideally, all rooted cuttings from the same parent plant -- but haven't had the chance yet. On a related note: serissa, as most of us are finding, are subtropical or warm-temperate, not the tropicals we've so long considered them to be. Bill Swain, in MA, is experimenting with leaving a serissa or two in-ground thru the winter. If his survive, I may just stretch the envelope and repeat the experiment here -- but with a couple of plants I can afford to lose if it comes to that. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

12-15-2010, 04:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 114	I was contemplating trying the approach grafting method, as well as the thread grafting method you mentioned (artyanimal), but am new to grafting practices and am worried about the cambrian layer dieing where the cut is made or hole drilled due to this trees die back rate when pruning is done. I was also thinking of redoing the entire nebari by doing a ground layering or tourniquet layering at the base, but I already have some pretty thick roots in some places and it would be a long process to get new nebari as thick as some of the current roots are. Last edited by Mike423; 12-15-2010 at 04:19 PM..

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-16-2010, 06:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 114	Thanks for the reassurance Arty, maybe ill acquire some rain tree seeds and grow some seedlings soon to get ready to do a thread graft this summer (or just wait until my tree makes some seeds for me). If all goes well I'll try a few more the next summer. As for field growing some tropical's, I think I will grow a ficus and a few others in pots with the bottoms cut out, so the roots can grow into the ground. Maybe that way it wount be as detrimental to them when I have to move them and bring them back in for the winter since I wont be messing with the roots as much. Less work too

12-17-2010, 03:36 AM	#8 (permalink)
artyanimal Snipologist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid-coast Maine / Zone 5 and S. Florida / Zone 10 Posts: 89	Peat moss may help a little. It actually generates heat as it decomposes so you might consider insulating the pots going it the ground with it and also mix some into the soil underneath. As for grafting and fusing, so long as you have a humid warm place to start them, cuttings will strike from last year's semi-hardened/hardened growth. So maybe save them when you trim and give it a try. Just treat them like any other cutting. Cheers, Arty

01-08-2011, 10:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mike423 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Zone 5 Posts: 114	Hey Arty I forgot to ask, since you seem to have some experience with Brazilian Rain trees if you could give me some advice. I was wondering if you knew what pH preference they have and if they flower on old growth? Also if you have any other insightful info or discover tips or tricks with them I would appreciate it (as well as from anyone else that owns a Brazilian rain tree). I only have had mine for less than a year an since I live in the Midwest I cant seem to find anyone with any real experience with them. They have some general info online (light & water requirements) but no real in depth info like with some other species. Thanks -Mike

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)