Black Pine Candles

Ml_work · 05-06-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:Spring: feed heavily with organic fertilizer cakes to push growth. Heavily means more than you have ever fed. Michael Persiano calls it "superfeeding." The Japanese call it "feeding."

Chris, I have seen pictures of the fertilizer cakes around pines and really thought it would kill the tree. It appeared to be way too much. What kind of cakes do you use ?
Thanks,
Michael

bonsaikc · 05-06-2009, 10:24 AM

I make my own cakes with bone meal, blood meal, cottonseed meal, garden lime, fish emulsion, liquid fert. and a dab of insecticide for maggots.

When I mentioned let the candles get as long as they want, I meant that they should lengthen, open up, and harden into long needles. Pay no attention to how big they get.

The reason we wait on the calendar is that the growth that actually builds the tree will be the second flush of growth, not the first. If your branch needs extension growth, just cut it in half instead of all the way, and the buds will form at the tip and perhaps among some needles. If you are ramifying your tree, the second flush will grow depending on how much summer you have.

There is a bit of a question mark, depending on the weather. In the Bay area, summers are cool and damp. One year Boon candled a very large JBP and the rest of the summer was cold and rainy with almost no sun. The needles opened up and only got about 3/8 inch long, far too short for the tree.

So, the less summer you have left, the shorter the resulting growth will be. Don't go crazy with it. Make your needles proportionate. In other words, a smaller tree will be candled a bit later than a larger one to get the needles the size you want.

Capisce?

Chris

noissee · 05-06-2009, 11:03 AM

"So, the less summer you have left, the shorter the resulting growth will be. Don't go crazy with it. Make your needles proportionate. In other words, a smaller tree will be candled a bit later than a larger one to get the needles the size you want."

I have been waiting for a nice clear statement like this for a long time. The length of growing season you have left will determine the length of needles?

bonsaikc · 05-06-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noissee

"So, the less summer you have left, the shorter the resulting growth will be. Don't go crazy with it. Make your needles proportionate. In other words, a smaller tree will be candled a bit later than a larger one to get the needles the size you want."

I have been waiting for a nice clear statement like this for a long time. The length of growing season you have left will determine the length of needles?

Absolutely. You have to discover what works best most of the time in your back yard.

Chris

treebeard55 · 05-06-2009, 09:27 PM

[QUOTE=bonsaikc;6919 ... You have to discover what works best ... in your back yard. Chris[/QUOTE]

One of the most important things for us all to keep in mind.

Ml_work · 05-07-2009, 12:42 AM

Capisce? - Not really but I am trying to.

There are so many things that pop up in my mind to ask as I am reading theses things that it makes me start my thought over again. But I am learning and I really do appreciate your time and effort. I took some pictures today, well it was dark again but I used the light. I named them sides = front and back and ends. You can see this tree has already had some nice size cuts done. and a couple still have sealer on them.

Thanks to All
Michael

Ml_work · 05-07-2009, 12:44 AM

last 2 pics

Dav4 · 05-07-2009, 07:21 AM

I'm still digging the trunk line in that 2nd to last pic...I see an elegant informal upright in there with the apex going off toward the left. Would you be able to get similar pics of the nebari, as well?

Dave

bonsaikc · 05-07-2009, 10:18 AM

Michael,
It seems that all your branches are on the upper side of your trunk. You will need to thin it out a bit when the time comes to see the direction you want to take it. You may need to lower a back branch to even out the tree, etc. Grafting one or two buds might be an even better option as it's hard to make it look natural when bending from one side of the tree to the other.

Chris

Ml_work · 05-07-2009, 11:26 PM

Dave, are you asking about the next to last pic in the second post? I will get some closeup of the nebari.

Chris...Quote:
"It seems that all your branches are on the upper side of your trunk. You will need to thin it out a bit when the time comes"
You are correct all the branches are on the top side of the trunk, which I had not really noticed or thought of. "Thin out a bit when time comes" I hope that time is not soon, I would be much afraid to "cut" a branch at this point. Are you talking about years of growth? Which in that time maybe I would know how to "graft a bud or two". I think that is really neat and I have read about it, but never done it. I will let it grow for now and post more pics when the buds get to a point I have questions.
I am going to the Alabama Bonsai show in Bham next weekend, I heard they will have some demonstrations going on. Maybe it will be with Pines.

Have A Great Day and Thanks!
Michael

05-06-2009, 10:24 AM	#12 (permalink)
bonsaikc What're YOU lookin' at? Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ottawa, KS Posts: 155	I make my own cakes with bone meal, blood meal, cottonseed meal, garden lime, fish emulsion, liquid fert. and a dab of insecticide for maggots. When I mentioned let the candles get as long as they want, I meant that they should lengthen, open up, and harden into long needles. Pay no attention to how big they get. The reason we wait on the calendar is that the growth that actually builds the tree will be the second flush of growth, not the first. If your branch needs extension growth, just cut it in half instead of all the way, and the buds will form at the tip and perhaps among some needles. If you are ramifying your tree, the second flush will grow depending on how much summer you have. There is a bit of a question mark, depending on the weather. In the Bay area, summers are cool and damp. One year Boon candled a very large JBP and the rest of the summer was cold and rainy with almost no sun. The needles opened up and only got about 3/8 inch long, far too short for the tree. So, the less summer you have left, the shorter the resulting growth will be. Don't go crazy with it. Make your needles proportionate. In other words, a smaller tree will be candled a bit later than a larger one to get the needles the size you want. Capisce? Chris __________________ I am the 545th best crossword puzzle solver in the world! Sashi-no-eda Bonsai Blog

05-06-2009, 09:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 510	[QUOTE=bonsaikc;6919 ... You have to discover what works best ... in your back yard. Chris[/QUOTE] One of the most important things for us all to keep in mind. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

05-07-2009, 10:18 AM	#19 (permalink)
bonsaikc What're YOU lookin' at? Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ottawa, KS Posts: 155	Michael, It seems that all your branches are on the upper side of your trunk. You will need to thin it out a bit when the time comes to see the direction you want to take it. You may need to lower a back branch to even out the tree, etc. Grafting one or two buds might be an even better option as it's hard to make it look natural when bending from one side of the tree to the other. Chris __________________ I am the 545th best crossword puzzle solver in the world! Sashi-no-eda Bonsai Blog

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05-06-2009, 12:59 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ml_work Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 277	Quote:Spring: feed heavily with organic fertilizer cakes to push growth. Heavily means more than you have ever fed. Michael Persiano calls it "superfeeding." The Japanese call it "feeding." Chris, I have seen pictures of the fertilizer cakes around pines and really thought it would kill the tree. It appeared to be way too much. What kind of cakes do you use ? Thanks, Michael

05-06-2009, 11:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
noissee Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: florida panhandle Posts: 206	"So, the less summer you have left, the shorter the resulting growth will be. Don't go crazy with it. Make your needles proportionate. In other words, a smaller tree will be candled a bit later than a larger one to get the needles the size you want." I have been waiting for a nice clear statement like this for a long time. The length of growing season you have left will determine the length of needles?

05-07-2009, 07:21 AM	#18 (permalink)
Dav4 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SE Massachusetts Posts: 93	I'm still digging the trunk line in that 2nd to last pic...I see an elegant informal upright in there with the apex going off toward the left. Would you be able to get similar pics of the nebari, as well? Dave

05-07-2009, 11:26 PM	#20 (permalink)
Ml_work Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 277	Dave, are you asking about the next to last pic in the second post? I will get some closeup of the nebari. Chris...Quote: "It seems that all your branches are on the upper side of your trunk. You will need to thin it out a bit when the time comes" You are correct all the branches are on the top side of the trunk, which I had not really noticed or thought of. "Thin out a bit when time comes" I hope that time is not soon, I would be much afraid to "cut" a branch at this point. Are you talking about years of growth? Which in that time maybe I would know how to "graft a bud or two". I think that is really neat and I have read about it, but never done it. I will let it grow for now and post more pics when the buds get to a point I have questions. I am going to the Alabama Bonsai show in Bham next weekend, I heard they will have some demonstrations going on. Maybe it will be with Pines. Have A Great Day and Thanks! Michael

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