Japanese black pine... any ideas?

Nate_B · 09-08-2008, 12:35 AM

Yah, I am not planting in a smaller pot. What I am thinking is a bigger pot... yet, i would probably be untangling the roots a bit and checking out the nebari. I have found in so doing that I lose some of the roots. I don't know if this is good to do late in the year even if I am putting it in a bigger pot.

The bigger pot versus the ground is probably what I would go with, as I am renting and may not be in the house i am in for very long. I can barely even keep the grass watered enough, let alone trees in the ground. So it would go in a much bigger pot.

Can I do that at this point in the year knowing that I am probably going to lose some of the roots in the process? That's my question.

Thanks for all the feedback

Ravenna · 09-08-2008, 02:15 AM

Hi Nate,

not sure what the climate is like in your area but in general it is fine to repot the pines in early spring or early autumn. Regarding the needle length of Pinus thunbergii: as I mentioned I am not a pine buff. I got the comment that standard black pines are not suitable for shohin out of the book of Morten Albek though there some culitivars of pinus thunbergii are suitable for bonsai. I assumed that this is just a "standard black pine" that you have there - so if it is I would keep the advice of Morten Albek in mind. The needle size does reduce but according to him not enough to make it a good shohin.

Personally I would always prefer planting the tree out in the ground compared to a pot if I want it to gain girth. Regarding the large pot: beware that it still is suitable for the size of the tree. Drainage in a large pot is not the same as in the open ground so if you choose too large a pot you will just have root rot. Pines rather prefer to be on the dry side compared to deciduous trees so bear that in mind when you choose how to go from here.

Regarding the potential of your trees: I think Tom as a good point there. I must admit that I was quite tempted to say the same thing. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have buy more expensive material. It just means that you have to take your time and look around. I have often noticed when I can look around in nurseries (bonsai and "normal" ones) that there can be plenty of material in a price range that I am happy to pay but where the trees are not what I want. But if you take the time to search (and sometimes not get anything) you suddenly see a tree in your price category which has a trunk movement which really appeals to you and with a really nice branch placement in the midst of all those other trees which you don't like. So it is also a matter of being patient when "hunting"...

Well, I wish you fun with your trees.

JTGJr25 · 09-08-2008, 07:15 AM

Quote:

I got the comment that standard black pines are not suitable for shohin out of the book of Morten Albek though there some culitivars of pinus thunbergii are suitable for bonsai. I assumed that this is just a "standard black pine" that you have there - so if it is I would keep the advice of Morten Albek in mind. The needle size does reduce but according to him not enough to make it a good shohin.

Yea, when I read that it really confused me but I think your right that he meant certain varieties work and others dont.

Tom

anttal63 · 09-08-2008, 04:38 PM

not all shohin jbp's out there are yatsabusa. it is all in the refinment and techniques used.and of course your taste.

now nate to answer your question.

if you cut a load off the top and the roots and then put it in a bigger pot this is risky buiss, because of how much water the remaining tree can take up.

if you want to grow the tree on and do no cutting at all and just give the roots a scratch and slip in to a larger pot this makes sense.

i have done heavy root work on jbp and repotted in fall, but we only get light frost here no freezing conditions. thats the trick to allow the roots some healing time before it gets to cold.

another thing is jbp likes water as long as the drainage is excellent. if you want to get it into go mode it will kick alot more butt when it is well watered.

Nate_B · 09-08-2008, 05:31 PM

Antonio,
Thanks... that's what I was looking for. Very helpful. I am definitely learning not to do it all at once. And i know these pines are sensitive... and slow growing.

Part of me thinks we have enough time here in OR that I can put it in a bigger pot than what it's in without cutting back anything and that it will recover before cold nights come.

anttal63 · 09-08-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate_B

Antonio,
Thanks... that's what I was looking for. Very helpful. I am definitely learning not to do it all at once. And i know these pines are sensitive... and slow growing. Part of me thinks we have enough time here in OR that I can put it in a bigger pot than what it's in without cutting back anything and that it will recover before cold nights come.

on the contrary jbp's are fairly resilient and fast growing as long as you respect what your enviroment allows you to get away with? when conditions are right, the tree young and healthy, growing vigouresly you can even prune roots, repot, prune top and wire all in the one go no prob.
if your fall and winter tend to be wet i woud leave it till early spring, otherwise slip it up to the next size only.

09-08-2008, 12:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
Nate_B Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bend, OR Posts: 11	Yah, I am not planting in a smaller pot. What I am thinking is a bigger pot... yet, i would probably be untangling the roots a bit and checking out the nebari. I have found in so doing that I lose some of the roots. I don't know if this is good to do late in the year even if I am putting it in a bigger pot. The bigger pot versus the ground is probably what I would go with, as I am renting and may not be in the house i am in for very long. I can barely even keep the grass watered enough, let alone trees in the ground. So it would go in a much bigger pot. Can I do that at this point in the year knowing that I am probably going to lose some of the roots in the process? That's my question. Thanks for all the feedback __________________ Nate www.natebettger.com

09-08-2008, 04:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
anttal63 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: melbourne victoria australia Posts: 155	not all shohin jbp's out there are yatsabusa. it is all in the refinment and techniques used.and of course your taste. now nate to answer your question. if you cut a load off the top and the roots and then put it in a bigger pot this is risky buiss, because of how much water the remaining tree can take up. if you want to grow the tree on and do no cutting at all and just give the roots a scratch and slip in to a larger pot this makes sense. i have done heavy root work on jbp and repotted in fall, but we only get light frost here no freezing conditions. thats the trick to allow the roots some healing time before it gets to cold. another thing is jbp likes water as long as the drainage is excellent. if you want to get it into go mode it will kick alot more butt when it is well watered. __________________ Antonio...... __________ Last edited by anttal63; 09-08-2008 at 04:43 PM..

09-08-2008, 05:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Nate_B Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bend, OR Posts: 11	Antonio, Thanks... that's what I was looking for. Very helpful. I am definitely learning not to do it all at once. And i know these pines are sensitive... and slow growing. Part of me thinks we have enough time here in OR that I can put it in a bigger pot than what it's in without cutting back anything and that it will recover before cold nights come. __________________ Nate www.natebettger.com

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09-08-2008, 02:15 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ravenna Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 204	Hi Nate, not sure what the climate is like in your area but in general it is fine to repot the pines in early spring or early autumn. Regarding the needle length of Pinus thunbergii: as I mentioned I am not a pine buff. I got the comment that standard black pines are not suitable for shohin out of the book of Morten Albek though there some culitivars of pinus thunbergii are suitable for bonsai. I assumed that this is just a "standard black pine" that you have there - so if it is I would keep the advice of Morten Albek in mind. The needle size does reduce but according to him not enough to make it a good shohin. Personally I would always prefer planting the tree out in the ground compared to a pot if I want it to gain girth. Regarding the large pot: beware that it still is suitable for the size of the tree. Drainage in a large pot is not the same as in the open ground so if you choose too large a pot you will just have root rot. Pines rather prefer to be on the dry side compared to deciduous trees so bear that in mind when you choose how to go from here. Regarding the potential of your trees: I think Tom as a good point there. I must admit that I was quite tempted to say the same thing. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have buy more expensive material. It just means that you have to take your time and look around. I have often noticed when I can look around in nurseries (bonsai and "normal" ones) that there can be plenty of material in a price range that I am happy to pay but where the trees are not what I want. But if you take the time to search (and sometimes not get anything) you suddenly see a tree in your price category which has a trunk movement which really appeals to you and with a really nice branch placement in the midst of all those other trees which you don't like. So it is also a matter of being patient when "hunting"... Well, I wish you fun with your trees.

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