black pine pruning

noissee · 05-05-2008, 01:22 PM

i have a young black pine, the trunk is about 1/2 inch. there are no "branches" longer than an inch or two. the first candles are coming out about now. this is my question; should i let these candles grow out since the branches need to be lengthened quite a bit, or should i do candle pruning. and yes i have read and read all about candle pinching and the different techniques...i'm just wondering if my tree is too immature to bother with that stuff, and perhaps candle pinching would not be beneficial this year?

JTGJr25 · 05-05-2008, 01:37 PM

With my limited experience, let the candles grow and the needles open. In the fall, you can trim the new candles back to the last worl of needles and from there many new buds will form. In the spring these will open and the result will be a much bushier tree.

Tom

noissee · 05-05-2008, 02:36 PM

i understand your technique, but will this give me a little length? or perhaps, by doing this every year, will i gradually gain length with smaller internodes?

anttal63 · 05-05-2008, 02:45 PM

to me it sounds like your tree should grow uninterupted for a few years with late fall pruning (lightly) for balancing. no need to worry about short needles and internodes at this point. 1/2 inch trunk wont even do a shohin justice.

noissee · 05-05-2008, 03:21 PM

this is more along the lines of what i was thinking, that i should put it in the ground for a few years and let it grow. i guess my real question is, that if i let the branches grow out uninhibited, will i be able to produce finer branch structure in the future? or will it be too late.

anttal63 · 05-05-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noissee

this is more along the lines of what i was thinking, that i should put it in the ground for a few years and let it grow. i guess my real question is, that if i let the branches grow out uninhibited, will i be able to produce finer branch structure in the future? or will it be too late.

in the ground is good, right now you need to fatten and shape a trunk, later through a series of trunk chops and cut backs taper and branches will develope. then comes all the intricate stuff ramification and shorter needles.
now some of this may vary on timing depending what size tree you are after. for now big grow box or the ground.

noissee · 05-05-2008, 05:10 PM

thanks for the input, i think i will put it in the ground, the soil here is mostly sandy, so it will have no problem with wet feet. is there a certain length at which i should let the branches grow before candle pinching? or should i just not worry about that at all for a few years?

JTGJr25 · 05-05-2008, 05:53 PM

My understanding of pines, which I mentioned is limited, says that if you don't work on the branches ahead of time then you will have nothing left to work with after the trunk has thickened. Imo putting it in the ground is a good idea but it all depends on how large of a tree you want. Going with my understanding, you need to choose a bunch of branches that could possibly be used as final branches and mark them with pipe cleaners or something. These branches should be cut back in order to gain finer branchlets that can be worked with later down the road. Then leave other branches to grow as sacrifice to thicken the trunk, just make sure the needles from those branches don't block the sun from reaching the potential final branches.

Again, just my 2 cents is all.

Tom

anttal63 · 05-05-2008, 06:57 PM

some branches can be used providing they dont thicken too much in the ground and therefor need to be kept in check. if you have branches close to the base these are good fo fattening the base. some branches will make good future leaders and attention should be applied to developing those shapes.

if your jbp is in a bonsai pot and you are not doing major trunk chops it can be difficult to get new branches on old wood however if your jbp is in the ground and you are doing some ample trunk chopping the sucker will bud back no prob.

look at all the sumo shohin jbp's around, how do you think they get those small fine canopy's on an old knarly stump?

trunk chops.

if kc could chime in and ellaborate on this, correct me if im wrong that would be great.

personally i think im on the money.

JTGJr25 · 05-05-2008, 07:25 PM

I'm saying this because I've read in Brents blogs and other posts by him that this is how he has achieved his success. I wish he could chime in and elaborate.

I will say there are many ways of doing things and I am no expert on pines so I can only offer my opinion and limited knowledge.

Tom

05-05-2008, 01:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
noissee Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: florida panhandle Posts: 206	black pine pruning i have a young black pine, the trunk is about 1/2 inch. there are no "branches" longer than an inch or two. the first candles are coming out about now. this is my question; should i let these candles grow out since the branches need to be lengthened quite a bit, or should i do candle pruning. and yes i have read and read all about candle pinching and the different techniques...i'm just wondering if my tree is too immature to bother with that stuff, and perhaps candle pinching would not be beneficial this year?

05-05-2008, 02:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
anttal63 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: melbourne victoria australia Posts: 155	to me it sounds like your tree should grow uninterupted for a few years with late fall pruning (lightly) for balancing. no need to worry about short needles and internodes at this point. 1/2 inch trunk wont even do a shohin justice. __________________ Antonio...... __________

05-05-2008, 06:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
anttal63 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: melbourne victoria australia Posts: 155	some branches can be used providing they dont thicken too much in the ground and therefor need to be kept in check. if you have branches close to the base these are good fo fattening the base. some branches will make good future leaders and attention should be applied to developing those shapes. if your jbp is in a bonsai pot and you are not doing major trunk chops it can be difficult to get new branches on old wood however if your jbp is in the ground and you are doing some ample trunk chopping the sucker will bud back no prob. look at all the sumo shohin jbp's around, how do you think they get those small fine canopy's on an old knarly stump? trunk chops. if kc could chime in and ellaborate on this, correct me if im wrong that would be great. personally i think im on the money. __________________ Antonio...... __________

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05-05-2008, 01:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
JTGJr25 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Jersey Posts: 230	With my limited experience, let the candles grow and the needles open. In the fall, you can trim the new candles back to the last worl of needles and from there many new buds will form. In the spring these will open and the result will be a much bushier tree. Tom

05-05-2008, 02:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
noissee Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: florida panhandle Posts: 206	i understand your technique, but will this give me a little length? or perhaps, by doing this every year, will i gradually gain length with smaller internodes?

05-05-2008, 03:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
noissee Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: florida panhandle Posts: 206	this is more along the lines of what i was thinking, that i should put it in the ground for a few years and let it grow. i guess my real question is, that if i let the branches grow out uninhibited, will i be able to produce finer branch structure in the future? or will it be too late.

05-05-2008, 05:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
noissee Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: florida panhandle Posts: 206	thanks for the input, i think i will put it in the ground, the soil here is mostly sandy, so it will have no problem with wet feet. is there a certain length at which i should let the branches grow before candle pinching? or should i just not worry about that at all for a few years?

05-05-2008, 05:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
JTGJr25 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Jersey Posts: 230	My understanding of pines, which I mentioned is limited, says that if you don't work on the branches ahead of time then you will have nothing left to work with after the trunk has thickened. Imo putting it in the ground is a good idea but it all depends on how large of a tree you want. Going with my understanding, you need to choose a bunch of branches that could possibly be used as final branches and mark them with pipe cleaners or something. These branches should be cut back in order to gain finer branchlets that can be worked with later down the road. Then leave other branches to grow as sacrifice to thicken the trunk, just make sure the needles from those branches don't block the sun from reaching the potential final branches. Again, just my 2 cents is all. Tom

05-05-2008, 07:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
JTGJr25 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Jersey Posts: 230	I'm saying this because I've read in Brents blogs and other posts by him that this is how he has achieved his success. I wish he could chime in and elaborate. I will say there are many ways of doing things and I am no expert on pines so I can only offer my opinion and limited knowledge. Tom

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