shaggybirdman

i have a J red maple i bought as a patio tree. it now has a wonderful 2+" trunk. she is almost 6' tall now. dare i do a trunk chop to turn her into a bonsai? i also have 2 bloodgoods that i'd like to do the same too. got all 3 dirt cheap, but really love them, and don't want to loose them.

how when. and do i dare chop them?

all input greatly appreciated in advance.

Jerry

Brooklyn Boy

Chop in the Spring when the tree is partially or fully leafed out.

Change or leave the trunk angle, depending on what style you have in mind.

You will also want to begin creation of a flat, wide root system at the time
you chop. That means cutting the tap root rather high.

Examine the trunk carefully - you should see ringed areas or perhaps irregularities
that mark the locations of past branching or internodal spacing. These are the
regions where the tree is most likely to bud back. But it really could happen anywhere.

You can also plant the tap root so that the top 1/2" is sticking out of the ground.
It will almost certainly sprout and start a whole new tree.

Rick Moquin

That IMO opinion is the last thing you want to do. The tree is under enough stress from the chop and more than likely no chlorophyll production is taking place, as I presume this will occur rather low. The trees energy reserves will be held in the roots until new lines of communication have resumed. Roots can wait until the tree has re-established itself, as in next year. Only one major operation should take place in any growing season.

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JLDoggett

I agree Rick, either/or, but never both in one season. Otherwise you have a tree in the same stress as one collected from the wild. A major risk that I would avoid.

Were it mine, I would chop it this year let it grow with full roots, then do root work next year. Once you have established fine feeder roots close to the trunk you can start doing small root prunings the same year you are refining the canopy.

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Phil

I was just about to chime in here on this and noticed that Jim came along with the same feelings. A chop and messing about with the roots at the same time seems to spell trouble when it can all be avoided with some patience. As said....one or the other but not at the same time.

~Phil

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William N. Valavanis

Sorry, I disagree with you all.

From first hand experience for over 40 years it is BEST to do both drastic pruning on the top and bottom of deciduous species at one time.

Early spring would be best to do this with Japanese maples. In western New York state that would be in April sometime, just as the buds are swelling, and ideally before they open.

I have numerous examples of successfully using this technique and have written articles on it too.

Good luck!

Bill

Rick Moquin

For all our educational needs here Bill, why? I know the tap root serves no useful purpose besides anchoring the tree once other roots have formed, but does it not cause stress?

I am definitely not doubting a man of your vast experience on the subject, but you will need to explain your conclusions.

__________________
Bonsai is the journey, not the destination
Bonsai Wonders

William N. Valavanis

I have learned from experience that it is best to only "shock" the plant once. Try to keep the top and bottom volumes kind of even.

Often I have seen where people have been "too" cautious when drastic pruning, only doing the top one year, waiting then doing the bottom (also the other way around). Sometimes when the second drastic cut is made the entire plant will die. Then, in addition to losing the plant, valuable time is also lost. Time is too valuable for me, as are the plants.

If the plant is going to die, it is best to have it die immediately, not after a year or two. Cut your loses quickly, don't waste time.

Hit the plant once. No guts, no glory!

Of course, not all my drastic pruning techniques work 100% of the time, but I've learned my lessons the hard way, through experience (and with by formal studies and two degrees in ornamental horticulture).

Bill

PS: These are my own personal observations of a professional bonsai artist and educator, not a hobbyist who often repeats mistakes over and over again and generally advises people on things learned from others with limited experience. I find it amazing on how many "experts" are offering advice on the internet...

Phil

I can understand your reasoning on this Bill nor would I question your years of experience. With that said, does this reasoning also apply to a chop as opposed to simple and or drastic pruning of a tree and it's roots at the same time?

~Phil

__________________

Please, always keep in mind that the typewritten word does not always convey what you wish to say, and to always treat others as you would have them treat you. Think twice-submit once.
I started out with nothing....and still have most of it.
"Its hell out there, give them hell back." ~ Prowler/Victor Gray 12/31/1943 - 11/24/2008

William N. Valavanis

Trunk "chop"?

What is that?

Probably a term coined by hobbyists...

The correct term here is "Drastic Pruning".

Bill