Who would have thought ...

treebeard55 · 12-19-2009, 09:40 PM

...that a piece of oak bark would be so tough?

A couple of weeks ago my wife asked me to pull the cork out of a bottle of wine. I got out my pocketknife corkscrew, screwed it into place, and proceeded to pull with great effort and appropriate sound effects. After considerable struggle, the cork finally came out -- and I discovered the corkscrew had been largely straightened out by the cork's resistance!

Tonite she wanted to open a bottle of Shiraz Wyalla Cove, a nice Aussie red. We still had another corkscrew, so I went to work. Dang thing wouldn't budge, despite much tugging, huffing, and the eager help of our 9-year-old. Then I gave another hard pull -- and the corkscrew broke off at the shank!

Enough already!

I think someone needs to invent a hydraulic cork-puller. Meanwhile, she's drinking sparkling water.

Rick Moquin · 12-20-2009, 07:02 AM

Maybe a stupid question Steve, but are you laying your wine bottles on their side?

treebeard55 · 12-20-2009, 09:32 AM

Neither of us drinks much wine, and we're not what you'd call wine connoisseurs. This bottle had been upright, in the refrigerator.

I know I display my ignorance, but what does it do, to leave a wine bottle on its side?

Phil · 12-20-2009, 11:52 AM

Not a wine drinker at all but from what I can see is that corks are becoming a thing of the past. Now days even some of the more expensive wines are going to plastic/rubber stoppers and even screw on caps. Of course some of the hard core wine snobs turn their collective noses up on it but the use of cork is simply a carry over from the old days. Also there is the occasional bottle of wine that is ruined by a contaminated cork. As for keeping a bottle of wine on it's side I believe that is to keep the cork from drying out.

~Phil~

Rick Moquin · 12-20-2009, 12:27 PM

Yup! In a roundabout way

Phil nailed it on it's head.

Laying the bottle on their side will prevent not only the cork from drying out and sticking to the sides of the neck, it also prevents oxygen from entering the bottle and oxidizing the wine which in turn, turns to vinegar.

Very seldom will a bad cork turn wine, although it has happened. The problem that the snobs prefer a cork is that you cannot detect smells from plastic. Not a snob, I do prefer a cork for determining smell only, mustiness is present on the cork if the wine has turned, which would be only apparent when sniffed from the glass itself, as well as a wine that has turned, it is easily detectable from the cork. Nowadays their substitutse has been deemed quite acceptable, unfortunately we are left to breath in via the wine glass. It does have it's advantages it can be re-used to re-cork an unfinished bottle for a couple of days. This of course to the purist is unspoken of, as all wine should be drunk once opened. Mind you the snobs Phil is referring to are not very frugal. To those who can't afford a $1K+ bottle of Chateau Lafitte we re-cork the unused portion to drink the next day.

Twist off caps have also been widely accepted to those who do not drink an entire bottle of wine in any sitting but prefer to have the occasional glass. The solution to this is to buy a 4 litre carboy that prevents oxidizing and hence allows you to enjoy a glass of wine when it strikes your fancy. I have 2 such beasts one red on the counter and one white in the fridge. After many years of trial and error, the missus and I have found our "house wine" that goes with just about everything. This is over and above the 60+ bottles we have on hand at any given time. Yes we drink allot of wine. What can I say Monsieur, I'm French

treebeard55 · 12-20-2009, 10:49 PM

Now I understand why a wine rack always holds the bottles with the cork end a little lower!

Thank you, Rick and Phil. Would either of you have any suggestions for completing the removal of the cork from the other evening's wine bottle? It's still in there, laughing at me, I'm sure.

BTW, Rick, my paternal grandmother had cousins in Nova Scotia; she and my grandfather would drive out to visit every few years. But I have no idea where in NS they were.

Rick Moquin · 12-20-2009, 11:37 PM

Steve,

Wrt the former bottle with a stuck cork, lay the bottle on it's side for a week or so (don't quote me) as an attempt to rehiodrate the cork and then retry if a no go, then drive the cork into the bottle using a dowel slightly undersized to the neck then, using a knive hold the cork away from the neck opening and decant your wine in a decanter or a jar or whatever will hold that quantity of wine. This has worked for me in the past when no corkscrews were available. Be careful to not hurt yourself in the process (yes I am serious), be forceful but gentle, now there is an oxymoron

AlainK · 12-21-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treebeard55

(...) This bottle had been upright, in the refrigerator.

Aaaaargh!!!!

Sorry, couldn't help it: two so different cultures. Imagine seeing someone using a fork and a knife to cut their chips in a fast-food restaurant

I have no inention of mocking you, I suspect some would even call for the dark ages of the death penalty if they saw you putting a bottle of red wine in the fridge. I put beer in the fridge, champagne or white wine.

Rick is right, and on the technical side, I would say that the colder the air is, the more it retracts.
There is always a small volume of air in the top of a bottle when it stands upright (that is, once in a while, Rick is right, keep them lying, and turn them one third every month or so if they are kept in a cellar or a like environment).
If the wine was bottled at 25-30 ° celsius, and the kept at 4-6°, then the air retracts, as if it was a succion cup.

So if you want to spare your corkscrew, put the wine at room temperatures for several hours. Most red wines are served at 17-20° (opening the bottle an hour before, or pouring it into a decanter for some wines as Mr. Moqueur suggested).

But tastes vary, and wines too. I didn't like wine when I was young, but I met someone whose job was to sell wine in wine events in supermarkets. It's like bonsaï, that's when you begin to enjoy it that you can measure the distance between a connoisseur (someone who knows, quelqu'un qui connait, ou qui sait) and an amateur (someone who loves, quelqu'un qui aime) like the vast majority of us.

Sipping a glass of Pauillac (Moussas-Lynch, 2007) at the moment.
Not the best year and a bit young, but for sthg like 10€, less than the price of two pints of the most common beer you can find in pubs everywhere : Douce France...

Hips.

Hand rebem-mer: don't in zhe frigje. I say. Om champHips

AlainK · 12-21-2009, 06:36 PM

Uncle Agony strikes again:

In a previous episode, one of our friends told us how puzzlzd he was when he couldn't open a bottle of wine. He was flabbergasted at corkscrews straightening out. I know, sounds a bit scary, but there's an X-File on that encounter, even if the truth -- the unbelievable truth!-- is elsewhere.

Here is a video that was probably taken in Paris.

Unfortunately, the creatures in it speak an alien language, but the horrible pictures speak for themselves.

A few words of vocabulary though to help the scholars-to-be in their quest of knowledge:

First 6 seconds :
- "Hé bé, si tu fais ça, t'es le meilleur..."
-"Well, if you can do that, you're the best..."

Around 38 seconds:
-"Fais-nous rêver"
-"Make us dream"

Other useful idioms:
- alcoolique : speaks for itself...
- père breton : Breton father (people from Brittany are reputed for being heavy drinkers. They are related to other Celtic people, the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish)
- grolle : colloquial for shoe (std French: chaussure)
- "La vache!" ("The cow") : Blimey! / Holy cow! / (any common local expression of both admiration and disbelief)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa5fSBfPd0M

WARNING!
This is not an example to take. This is just to be taken as an ethnologHips-all contribution to treebeard55's post.

Berry Chrispsmas to y'all...

Phil · 12-21-2009, 08:34 PM

Hmmm......I guess sometimes determination and drunkenness is the solution after all! After all is said and done I doubt very much if he'll remember if he drank a fairly good bottle of wine or Mogen David Concord!

Old Japanese proverb; "Ippai wa hito sake a nomi, ni-hai wa sake sake o nomi, sam-bai wa sake hito o nomu."

Translation; “The first cup, the man drinks wine; the second cup, wine drinks wine; the third cup, wine drinks up the man.”

~Phil~

12-19-2009, 09:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 510	Who would have thought ... ...that a piece of oak bark would be so tough? A couple of weeks ago my wife asked me to pull the cork out of a bottle of wine. I got out my pocketknife corkscrew, screwed it into place, and proceeded to pull with great effort and appropriate sound effects. After considerable struggle, the cork finally came out -- and I discovered the corkscrew had been largely straightened out by the cork's resistance! Tonite she wanted to open a bottle of Shiraz Wyalla Cove, a nice Aussie red. We still had another corkscrew, so I went to work. Dang thing wouldn't budge, despite much tugging, huffing, and the eager help of our 9-year-old. Then I gave another hard pull -- and the corkscrew broke off at the shank! Enough already! I think someone needs to invent a hydraulic cork-puller. Meanwhile, she's drinking sparkling water. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

12-20-2009, 07:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
Rick Moquin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dartmouth, NS Zone 5a/b Posts: 186	Maybe a stupid question Steve, but are you laying your wine bottles on their side? __________________ Bonsai is the journey, not the destination Bonsai Wonders

12-20-2009, 09:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 510	Neither of us drinks much wine, and we're not what you'd call wine connoisseurs. This bottle had been upright, in the refrigerator. I know I display my ignorance, but what does it do, to leave a wine bottle on its side? __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

12-20-2009, 11:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Phil A bit "Windswept" Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago, Ill. USDA Zone 5 Posts: 1,042	Not a wine drinker at all but from what I can see is that corks are becoming a thing of the past. Now days even some of the more expensive wines are going to plastic/rubber stoppers and even screw on caps. Of course some of the hard core wine snobs turn their collective noses up on it but the use of cork is simply a carry over from the old days. Also there is the occasional bottle of wine that is ruined by a contaminated cork. As for keeping a bottle of wine on it's side I believe that is to keep the cork from drying out. ~Phil~ __________________ Please, always keep in mind that the typewritten word does not always convey what you wish to say, and to always treat others as you would have them treat you. Think twice-submit once. I started out with nothing....and still have most of it. "Its hell out there, give them hell back." ~ Prowler/Victor Gray 12/31/1943 - 11/24/2008

12-20-2009, 12:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rick Moquin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dartmouth, NS Zone 5a/b Posts: 186	Yup! In a roundabout way Phil nailed it on it's head. Laying the bottle on their side will prevent not only the cork from drying out and sticking to the sides of the neck, it also prevents oxygen from entering the bottle and oxidizing the wine which in turn, turns to vinegar. Very seldom will a bad cork turn wine, although it has happened. The problem that the snobs prefer a cork is that you cannot detect smells from plastic. Not a snob, I do prefer a cork for determining smell only, mustiness is present on the cork if the wine has turned, which would be only apparent when sniffed from the glass itself, as well as a wine that has turned, it is easily detectable from the cork. Nowadays their substitutse has been deemed quite acceptable, unfortunately we are left to breath in via the wine glass. It does have it's advantages it can be re-used to re-cork an unfinished bottle for a couple of days. This of course to the purist is unspoken of, as all wine should be drunk once opened. Mind you the snobs Phil is referring to are not very frugal. To those who can't afford a $1K+ bottle of Chateau Lafitte we re-cork the unused portion to drink the next day. Twist off caps have also been widely accepted to those who do not drink an entire bottle of wine in any sitting but prefer to have the occasional glass. The solution to this is to buy a 4 litre carboy that prevents oxidizing and hence allows you to enjoy a glass of wine when it strikes your fancy. I have 2 such beasts one red on the counter and one white in the fridge. After many years of trial and error, the missus and I have found our "house wine" that goes with just about everything. This is over and above the 60+ bottles we have on hand at any given time. Yes we drink allot of wine. What can I say Monsieur, I'm French __________________ Bonsai is the journey, not the destination Bonsai Wonders

12-20-2009, 10:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
treebeard55 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Warsaw IN, USA USDA zone 5b Posts: 510	Now I understand why a wine rack always holds the bottles with the cork end a little lower! Thank you, Rick and Phil. Would either of you have any suggestions for completing the removal of the cork from the other evening's wine bottle? It's still in there, laughing at me, I'm sure. BTW, Rick, my paternal grandmother had cousins in Nova Scotia; she and my grandfather would drive out to visit every few years. But I have no idea where in NS they were. __________________ Treebeard 55 Steve Moore http://hoosierbonsai.blogspot.com The most important bonsai tool is your brain.

12-20-2009, 11:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Rick Moquin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dartmouth, NS Zone 5a/b Posts: 186	Steve, Wrt the former bottle with a stuck cork, lay the bottle on it's side for a week or so (don't quote me) as an attempt to rehiodrate the cork and then retry if a no go, then drive the cork into the bottle using a dowel slightly undersized to the neck then, using a knive hold the cork away from the neck opening and decant your wine in a decanter or a jar or whatever will hold that quantity of wine. This has worked for me in the past when no corkscrews were available. Be careful to not hurt yourself in the process (yes I am serious), be forceful but gentle, now there is an oxymoron __________________ Bonsai is the journey, not the destination Bonsai Wonders

12-21-2009, 06:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
AlainK Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orléans, France Posts: 187	Uncle Agony strikes again: In a previous episode, one of our friends told us how puzzlzd he was when he couldn't open a bottle of wine. He was flabbergasted at corkscrews straightening out. I know, sounds a bit scary, but there's an X-File on that encounter, even if the truth -- the unbelievable truth!-- is elsewhere. Here is a video that was probably taken in Paris. Unfortunately, the creatures in it speak an alien language, but the horrible pictures speak for themselves. A few words of vocabulary though to help the scholars-to-be in their quest of knowledge: First 6 seconds : - "Hé bé, si tu fais ça, t'es le meilleur..." -"Well, if you can do that, you're the best..." Around 38 seconds: -"Fais-nous rêver" -"Make us dream" Other useful idioms: - alcoolique : speaks for itself... - père breton : Breton father (people from Brittany are reputed for being heavy drinkers. They are related to other Celtic people, the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish) - grolle : colloquial for shoe (std French: chaussure) - "La vache!" ("The cow") : Blimey! / Holy cow! / (any common local expression of both admiration and disbelief) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa5fSBfPd0M WARNING! This is not an example to take. This is just to be taken as an ethnologHips-all contribution to treebeard55's post. Berry Chrispsmas to y'all... __________________ Alain K. http://www.rdb45.fr http://ak2.apinc.org/bdB Last edited by AlainK; 12-21-2009 at 06:38 PM.. Reason: Pauillac

12-21-2009, 08:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
Phil A bit "Windswept" Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago, Ill. USDA Zone 5 Posts: 1,042	Hmmm......I guess sometimes determination and drunkenness is the solution after all! After all is said and done I doubt very much if he'll remember if he drank a fairly good bottle of wine or Mogen David Concord! Old Japanese proverb; "Ippai wa hito sake a nomi, ni-hai wa sake sake o nomi, sam-bai wa sake hito o nomu." Translation; “The first cup, the man drinks wine; the second cup, wine drinks wine; the third cup, wine drinks up the man.” ~Phil~ __________________ Please, always keep in mind that the typewritten word does not always convey what you wish to say, and to always treat others as you would have them treat you. Think twice-submit once. I started out with nothing....and still have most of it. "Its hell out there, give them hell back." ~ Prowler/Victor Gray 12/31/1943 - 11/24/2008

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