J-Bog

There is something to be said about a website that has a nice looking layout and storefront. Simple is nice, but I think there is such a thing as too simple.

__________________
"It is said that you should never leave anything to chance; but, in operating like that, chance never leaves anything to you."

Phil

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on that point to a certain degree.
Number one being the information contained within the site. There are not too many nursery bonsai sites that I have seen thus far that also contain the volumes of information that is also contained within that site. I've seen far too many bonsai/nursery sites with beautiful looking pages and even the "typical" or should I say, stereotyped/generic oriental music thrown in the background.
Nice looking but what do you get, and most importantly, what are you offered?
Usually nothing that amounts to all that much with a hefty price to boot and no such well known backed up experience as is offered on that site by Brent Walston. Aside from the obvious fact that the upkeep and invested time to the upkeep of what may be considered a picturesque or the "eye candy" of such a site is all too time consuming and takes away from what is needed. That simply being quality and the knowledge and expertise to stand behind it.

If the pages within the book are good I'll take the pages any day and you can have the cover.

~Phil

__________________

Please, always keep in mind that the typewritten word does not always convey what you wish to say, and to always treat others as you would have them treat you. Think twice-submit once.
I started out with nothing....and still have most of it.
"Its hell out there, give them hell back." ~ Prowler/Victor Gray 12/31/1943 - 11/24/2008

J-Bog

I agree Phil, it is all about the quality, the prices and the information, but eye candy does go a long way. I feel awkward making purchases on websites that don't look decent. It makes me wonder about the operation of the business, I am left wondering if my money is being taken or if I will actually receive the item I purchase. I think alot of people feel that way too, otherwise places like Las Vegas wouldn't be able to steal as much money as they do. People go to Las Vegas because of the flashy lights and big sights to see.

__________________
"It is said that you should never leave anything to chance; but, in operating like that, chance never leaves anything to you."

Phil

Well, like said. I disagree to a certain point. It throws a poor light on our culture but it does seem like flash makes cash. The simple point being is what does your cash get in return with all the flash!

Good analogy and it in someways also furthermore proves my point in some respects. As the old saying goes; "All that glitters is not gold". I suppose the bottom line is for everyone to do diligent research in regards to anything on the Internet. In all respect that's what this forum is here for.

I think the point being in some ways is that anyone who has researched or has been around bonsai for sometime knows Brent Walston's irrefutable reputation in the world of bonsai and is not concerned about the "flash" but knowing the quality that lies within without question. I can only surmise that I had probably made my argument based upon knowing his reputation and could easily overlook the lack of "flash" as regarding his site without second thought. I just suppose I hate to see those that are new to bonsai to be taken in by the flash/looks of a site and to be so easily taken in by the "cover" as it were of a site as opposed to actually knowing what lies within it before spending their money. Bottom line, I'm sure we can all agree on one point. A golden door does not always lead to paradise. Just ask all the suckers who go to Las Vegas!

~Phil

__________________

Please, always keep in mind that the typewritten word does not always convey what you wish to say, and to always treat others as you would have them treat you. Think twice-submit once.
I started out with nothing....and still have most of it.
"Its hell out there, give them hell back." ~ Prowler/Victor Gray 12/31/1943 - 11/24/2008

Rick Moquin

Bonsai boy has lots of flash, a la Las Vegas and will leave you broke a la Las Vegas

Perhaps the best way is to ask before making a purchase, many folks will steer you in the right direction.

__________________
Bonsai is the journey, not the destination
Bonsai Wonders

Graydon

Coming from someone who has actually been to Brent's nursery I can tell you he invests his time in the proper place - the material he sells. Let's face it, we are looking to purchase trees so the material should be the most important thing, not the interface.

Flashy web sites are better suited to entertainment related pages in my opinion, or huge operations that have nothing better to spent time and money developing. The cost of developing a "wow" site need to be added to the cost of the product that is sold on the site. I am sure Brent could code up a fantastic site full of flashy animation and flash stuff but in the end his time is worth something right? I would rather see him preparing more areas to grow material, pruning some of the countless trees in "the jungle" and beginning to photograph some of the spectacular nearly complete trunks to be sold online.

It's worth noting that if you browse his site and don't see what you are looking for drop him an email. He has countless trunks that are very advanced - so many that posting a photo of each one would take a good amount of time. Ask for help, he's got the stuff.

Pup

I have read this topic with great interest. As we in Western Australia have only two Bonsai nurseries we do not have much of a problem.
We are restricted as to what we can import from other States of Australia and the world.
What does get up my Pipe, is one site here that has what you guys refer to as glitter wrapping.
It has the most horrendous excuse for Bonsai as they put it!!.At even more horrendous prices.
It is a bloody disgrace. Even better says that due to regulations we cannot ship except in Western Australia. Also add 10% GST to all prices. If you would like to look I have not got the link but Google Bonsai Palace Western Australia. then have a good laugh.Pup

__________________
G, day I live in western Australia I have been trying for the last 20+ years with some success to grow Bonsai. I am a perpetual learner and an advanced beginner

Mojosan

"He has countless trunks that are very advanced - so many that posting a photo of each one would take a good amount of time. "


And just how is a visitor to the site to know this? I have yet to see any indication of mature stock for sale, other than "email us"..... I have been to the site numerous times, and find navigation pretty poor. It seems that the vast majority of what is offered is in 2.75" pots.
The whole idea of "tell us what you are looking for and we'll let you know if we got it".. is pretty off-putting. Let me see what you have, and then I'll let you know if I'm interested. Not everybody sets out to find a specific piece every time.
The material may be listed in there somewhere, but it sure is not easy to find.

Just MHO.


Matt

Graydon

Matt - you have touched on several things that are I feel are issues with bonsai nurseries in America. Be prepared however as these have less to do with the online sellers as they do with us customers, our buying habits and what we need to expect.

Your opinion as stated demonstrates a particular issue I have with the sad state of online bonsai sales. It's almost as if you expect hundreds of trees to be photographed and cataloged, posted on a page with multiple pictures, descriptions and dimensions. I understand (and respect) your opinion and feelings about having to ask for something but I do not agree with it. Simply put - what's the big deal with asking for help? Is it that difficult to ask a person for assistance in selecting material? As I stated in a prior post the time and effort for the posting of these trees would need to be added to the operational cost of the business. That means the cost of the material would increase. The photos would also need to be updated as after all these are living and growing things not static inventory in a box. So would the tree pictures be changed 4 times a year x 200 trees x 4 photos per tree? Wow. That is a lot of work for anyone to do. Seems easier to just contact a seller and say "I have $xxx.xx to spend and want an elm, oak, pine or whatnot tree. Do you have anything? Can you send me photos of what the tree looks like right now? Can you give me a quote on shipping? Can you offer me some advice?"

The online shopping method you mention of "show me what you have and I will tell you if I am interested" seems a bit... reclusive and limiting. I am all about "empowering" the customer but you are not buying a $38,000 car from a huge corporation or dealership that is based on fixed and comparative pricing structures, you are buying a piece of changing living art from an artist of sorts. Some things can't be found on a computer screen with the single click of a mouse. Or can they? I suppose they could but I can tell you there is better stuff out there, you just need to do a bit more work than scrolling thru sites. Examples of this non internet presence but hell of a nursery are Jim Gremell, Roy Nagatoshi, Johnny Uchida and Mas Ishii. Fantastic stuff but you pretty much need to call or go there.

I can agree that a person who visits Brent's site might be unaware of his nicer material. However if one has spent anytime on the various bonsai chat sites no doubt you will encounter Brent's postings. He always refers to his blog or one of his articles. It doesn't take too much effort to visit the site or blog and after reading the entries have a better grasp on what he does and may have. That's how I found Brent and so have countess others. After posting back and forth I emailed him and bought some material. I eventually traveled out to California and made time during my trip to visit him, as well as many other nurseries. My point is that no matter what you are looking for or where you look you need to do a bit of leg work to get the good stuff. Are you looking for the good stuff? I am.

He does sell a lot of 2.75" material, so much he has a waiting list. He propagates some pretty special and rare material and does so in limited quantity. The sad part of this is that the majority of the people out there only want to spend little money and a small, young cutting grown plant is all they will buy or can afford. As you may know the good stuff is not young and never cheap. Be that as it may demand is demand. It does sadden me a bit that we, as customers don' really "get it" about how long it takes to grow a proper trunk (especially as a novice) and that there are few places out there selling proper trunks and trees that are not full of flaws that will still take 10 years to fix.

I can say for sure that when Brent does list the stuff not on the site now it will sell quickly and for realistic prices. I'll post some photos that I took just to show some examples. For more info contact Brent.

Attached Images

	IMG_3048.jpg (83.5 KB, 13 views)
	IMG_3090.jpg (94.6 KB, 17 views)
	IMG_3094.jpg (87.6 KB, 11 views)
	IMG_3127.jpg (75.8 KB, 12 views)

Mojosan

Graydon,

"I've got $xxx, got any pines for that?" Are you kidding me?!

What's wrong with a general description of a class of tree by size, etc and a price range? Then at least we have a place to start. Maybe the cheapest pine is more than I want to spend - or the quality is not what I think my $xxx dollars should buy. It would save us both time and effort.

I never said a pic and description of EVERY tree was necessary. Just put something out there so I get an idea of what is available. How much time does answering 50 emails about it take? Probably a lot more than the time it takes to make a generic listing of tree by class. You know, like

"small JBP, 10-16" H , 1"-2" trunks, $xxx-xxxUSD"