March BotM opinion thread.

[JLDoggett]

Here it is, Congrats again Pup!

[Mattbonsai]

Ok, I voted for Pups, because:

Al's tree looks really untidy and I don't like the shape of the plant as a whole, or the layout of the branches. Although pups tree (hope he doesn't mind me saying this) looks a bit like a porcelain tree, it's still the nicer of the two.

-Matt-

[Ross]

I voted for Al because I think his looks like a real tree.

[akeppler]

Congrats to Pup for a good job once again in the photo submission. While I think Ross is correct in that mine looks more like a real tree, I do agree with Matt that it seems a little untidy. I agree. This will diminish as it ramifies more. I have a photo of another zelcova that will be like this one with a few more years. They are fast growers and keeping branches in check on a tree this small is very difficult. They will grow to pencil size in two months if not kept in check with constant care and pinching. It is not difficult to get three inches elongation on a twig in a day or two. They grow up to 4 nodes a day.

About Pup's tree.

I like the overall image presented. I love the color of the leaves and would love to own a tree such as this. My take on bonsai is a little different than most people wish to do in bonsai. Many will sacrifice working towards a more perfect tree for an image that looks presentable in the present. What I mean is rather than destroy the image of today for a better tree in the future, they do not do the things necessary to make the tree better. This sometimes means not showing the tree for two or three years till the work catches up to where it was before the improving work was done. I do like the flare of the trunk at soil line and the trunk is large enough to make a good 6/1 ratio.

Some of the negatives I find distracting about this tree, for me as bonsai, are as follows.

1. I would like to see more taper in the trunk near the apex. The trunk line is rather thick at the top and is kind of hidden by discretely placed foliage. For me this is a key factor in convincing bonsai and a place where most bonsai hobbiest fall short due to the extra time it takes to make the additional chops to execute a well tapering apex.

2. I find the placement of the first branch on the left in a good place but not really a first branch with regards to size. The second branch on the right is longer and hangs down even lower than the first branch in an effort to complete some shape in the tree. For me I do not like to see a second branch try and fill the role of a first branch. The sasha-eda is very important and should set the mood for the tree. For me this arrangement makes the tree a little confusing.

3. The branch above the second branch seems redundent on this trunk. there is no need for that branch to be there except to fill a void in the canopy there. It should be removed and the branch above that branch should be bent down to make up that part of the canopy. Branches that close together on the same side are sometimes hard to remove because once again it make the tree look goofy for a few years, but builds a better tree when acted upon.

4. The glob of branches above the first branch is very distracting and I have no idea what is going on there. Maybe Pup could fill in some details on what is going on here, but I feel that some real attention needs to paid here to really improve the tree. It looks like a cluster of three branches, yet I do not know. I am left with that perception, and perception is all there is when looking at photo's. Once again it looks as though at least the upper smaller branch could be removed and maybe that would lessen the look.

5. In this photo I am left with the idea that this tree is a flat plane. There is absolutely no hint of any back branches. There is no perception of depth in this picture. Maybe that is the porcelain feel that someone mentioned. Back branches should always be visable from a frontal photgraph. They should be visable from the right or left side of the trunk to add a visual referance that the tree does indeed have something projecting backward.

Looking forward to next month, Al

[Rick Moquin]

Al,

For someone who claims that he has tons of great material, posting trees in development should not have occurred in this instance IMO.

Having said that I still endorse my original comments of when we first moved over to this site. Trees that are not ready to be displayed should remain on someones HD vice being posted up for BOTM, regardless of who posts them. That's my nickel, Phil you owe me three cents

[Ross]

I for one would like to see trees at any stage, the more the better. It has been pretty slow around here, and although I read all the interesting stuff that gets posted, I really enjoy the pictures the most. If we restrict this to show ready trees then not many here will participate. I don't have any trees to show right now up to those standards, do you? If so then let's see them!

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Rick Moquin

That's my nickel, Phil you owe me three cents

Nope... sorry Rick, its a nickel. Inflation ya know!

~Phil

[akeppler]

Originally Posted by Rick Moquin

Al,

For someone who claims that he has tons of great material, posting trees in development should not have occurred in this instance IMO.

I would need to see a quote on this one. Where was that said? Surely not here. I have taken the liberty to post the rules here in case you have not read them.

Welcome to the BonsaiCHAT.net ~ Bonsai of the Month Forum!

This is just some fun for everyone on the site. There are no prizes involved. The winning tree will however be featured on the home page and the winning artist will be asked to write a short history of the tree. This description with the picture will be archived in a section in the articles area.

The rules are simple. Submit a clear picture of a tree you own. The tree must be yours, the photograph should be yours or one you have the consent of the photographer to use. The photo can be older or a current one as long as you own the tree. Trees that do not win may be submitted again.

Submissions should be placed in the appropriate thread I will create in this forum. The submission thread will be started on the first day of the month and run for 10 (ten) days, the voting poll will then be created and run for the next 10 (ten) days. From time to time a theme may be given for a month to add variety.

Discussions of submissions can be taken up outside of the submission thread but within the Bonsai of the Month forum after the voting has concluded. I will start the threads for submissions, polls and discussion at the proper times.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

JLDoggett

As one can plainly see there are no rules as to this being any thing other than a photo of ones own tree. In fact many here have encouraged others to submit photo's even in a grow container. I might encourage you to enter the monthly submission. You may find it enlightening. The discussion is good and can be educational. I would value your critique of the tree but to dismiss the image in it's entirety as to being a tree to be shown in this format shows a lack of knowledge within the medium.

Originally Posted by Rick Moquin

Having said that I still endorse my original comments of when we first moved over to this site. Trees that are not ready to be displayed should remain on someones HD vice being posted up for BOTM, regardless of who posts them. That's my nickel, Phil you owe me three cents

Thanks Rick , I have noted your opinion. Like many others on the many forums, there are many who post photo's of trees ready to exhibit and many in training. I respect each and every person that has the guts to do this. You step into an arena pretty much naked to the world holding oneself up to ridicule or downright rudeness. I can handle it easily when I am speaking with someone whom I admire and respect. There are many things I can learn from someone such as this. Then there are many who come to the forums and talk the good talk and have absolutely nothing to show for their endless barrage of rhetoric. Words are easy, deeds are hard. In this case, you have chosen to come here and ridicule my entry as not worthy of this venue yet you have never posted much of anything. Unless you are ready to put a photo in the BOTM then frankly your opinon means nothing. Your opinion would do better on another forum about some so called masterpieces. It has no place here.

I threw in a winky face like thats supposed to make easier to swallow. Am I right?

Cheers, Al

[Rick Moquin]

Originally Posted by Ross

I for one would like to see trees at any stage, the more the better. It has been pretty slow around here, and although I read all the interesting stuff that gets posted, I really enjoy the pictures the most. If we restrict this to show ready trees then not many here will participate.

There are many places on this particular site to post trees to generate discussion, outside of the BOTM.

I don't have any trees to show right now up to those standards, do you? If so then let's see them!

... nor do I and do not feel the need to prove anything to any one. It is a sad day for bonsai when one needs to turn to such an argument in search of credence. No offense intended.

My comments were directed at Al. The appearance of constructive criticism in the review of Pup's tree is anything but. Now that is my dime! (inflation)

[Rick Moquin]

Originally Posted by akeppler

I would need to see a quote on this one. Where was that said? Surely not here. I have taken the liberty to post the rules here in case you have not read them.

no... but here post 127 to be more explicit.

Thanks Rick , I have noted your opinion. Like many others on the many forums, there are many who post photo's of trees ready to exhibit and many in training. I respect each and every person that has the guts to do this. You step into an arena pretty much naked to the world holding oneself up to ridicule or downright rudeness.

We have gone ovet this on numerous occasions, the overall tone of your post(s) leaves the impression of great arrogance on your part. It doesn't matter the subject. Whilst kudos were extended to Pup's submission and elected favourite for the month, I have a hard time believing the sincerity in your review and albeit constructive criticism of his tree. Based on previous discussions that have surrounded the BOTM.

I can handle it easily when I am speaking with someone whom I admire and respect. There are many things I can learn from someone such as this.

... as I

Then there are many who come to the forums and talk the good talk and have absolutely nothing to show for their endless barrage of rhetoric. Words are easy, deeds are hard. In this case, you have chosen to come here and ridicule my entry as not worthy of this venue yet you have never posted much of anything. Unless you are ready to put a photo in the BOTM then frankly your opinon means nothing.

I have not been at this for 22 years, and when I do have a tree worthy of BOTM it will be posted, have no fear as you say and yes you are more than welcome to tear it apart, I wouldn't expect nothing less from you.

Your opinion would do better on another forum about some so called masterpieces. It has no place here.

... perhaps but I believe I am not the only that has seen trough your transparent responses. Wrt opinions, yup you have yours and are entitled to it, and it is given the credit it deserves, no more no less. You are welcome to swallow with or without a winky.

Regards,
Rick