southernbelleweather

Hey everybody! I've been into to bonsai for about 6 months and have two Chinese Bird Plums pre-bonsai about 10 inches tall. I have them under light for 16 hours and they are also in a south facing window with humidity trays and water every couple of days. They are thriving under these conditions.

I've read conflicting info about the dormancy requirements of these trees. I first read that they always seem to be growing and do not need to be dormant thus are an ideal indoor bonsai. But then I read in other places that they need to be at 55 to 60 for 2 months starting at the winter solstice with less light. Because I thought they didn't need this at first, I did not do it.

My question is: Am I too late to make them dormant now and should I mess with a good thing anyway? Will these trees suffer down the road and if so, should I make them dormant next winter? Also, they need to come out of their nursery containers, but I've read they need to be repotted in spring in some places and in summer in other places.

I guess that was more than one question! Sorry, they are doing so well and I don't want to mess them up! Any advice appreciated!

artyanimal

I believe sweet plums remain as an evergreen in warm climates, but can become deciduous in temperate regions since that's the way they are shipped to the states from China. As such, I'd have to say then, that I have no real experience with them as plants that normally cycle in and out of dormancy.

The plums I handle commercially as I said, are shipped more or less dormant as bare root, without foliage in refrigerated or air conditioned containers. Once I pot them and they pop out however, they remain as evergreen 'tropical' bonsai. Mine come from southern part of China (zone 10) as do most used as bonsai in the states. For what its worth, I live in S. Florida also in zone 10. Which means we do get some cool weather (for tropicals). Last night for instance, was in the upper 40's and today will be in the low 70's. Plums and plants in general do not look as nice this time of year as they normally do since they are growing much more slowly. The reason is not as much the temp though for slower growth as it is instead, because sunrise is at about 7:00 and sunset about 6:00 and plants are carrying out other functions while 'resting' such as storing the energy they will need for more vigorous growth (leaf production) in spring and summer.

So, take this with a grain of salt as I don't know for 100% sure but, I suspect that your plants (this species in particular) under 16 hours of daily lights while evidently looking fine now in winter, may suffer a little exhaustion later during, or toward the end of summer. In other words, they may begin to look even more ratty than usual come fall or winter especially, if 'forced' under this much winter lighting for more than one season.

However, in your location, I would not attempt to force dormancy this late in the season (if ever) but, I would reduce the amount of light to exposure times closer to the natural conditions for this time of year. You could do this by using your lights only in early morning and late afternoon when your southern exposure is at its weakest and simply allow the sun do its job the rest of the day.

While this will appear to be of little or no help right now and for the next month and a half or so, I think it may prove beneficial down the road.

Cheers,

Arty

southernbelleweather

Thanks so much for the response Arty! They are growing quite vigorously, although they have slowed down a little of late. I'll try and reduce the light and see what happens!

southernbelleweather

On second thought, I've got these in a South facing window, but it's filtered through bamboo blinds, you know, the kind you can see through. And the two plants share one 13 watt CPF, so they haven't been getting intense light. Do you think I should still reduce the light? Thanks!

treebeard55

Can you remove the blinds? They're cutting down the light more than your eyes will tell you. (Our eyes adapt too well to be good horticultural light meters.)

You've raised a good question about dormancy requirements in Sageretia. Most books say to treat them as tropicals, but books have been wrong before.

Anyone else have some relevant experience?

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southernbelleweather

Actually, Treebeard I can just roll them up. I also could put them under one of my unused Aerogardens for some really strong light! I wonder though, if the low light has caused some sort of dormancy though which would equate to a mini-rest period before spring. I guess I could find out when I repot them from their nursery containers into training pots and put them out come March or April, although I would prefer them to remain indoor trees. Then I could see what vigorous growth is! What would you do? Fortunately, they only cost 7.50 a piece, and while I'd be unhappy to have killed them, they are probably good trees to experiment with.

clwagner167

Hi,

Just want to say that the Chinese Sweet Plum was my nemesis for so long but, I have never given up trying to grow it. I currently have a shohin that I purchased last June and knock - on - wood maybe all the trial and error has been finally worked out.

After purchasing it, I gradually acclimated it to the full sun and outdoors for about a week. During the summer I had vigorous growth and it thrived. I brought it in once the temps threatened to go down to about 55F at night. I have heard about people keeping them out until just above freezing! (It does get chilly in China where they originate)

Being that I live in Michigan it can get quite cold here and I didn't want to risk it. As mentioned, I have also heard of it being treated as an evergreen. I have been treating it the same as my tropicals, and the tree has been receiving a southern exposure minus the lights since the fall. I feed it 1/4 strength miracid once a week and I clip back random new shoots about every 2 weeks. So, it's growth has slowed down, but not entirely, as with all of my plants/trees. As arty mentioned, it's just their natural growth cycle. It would be interesting to read about someone's experience with the tree... living in the same zonal region such as arty's... with them leaving the tree out all year and how the tree responds.

I also agree with him in regard to your lighting...it would be best to ease off and let them resume on their own with the spring sun so that they may have a rest period.

Do you have any pics?

Good luck and welcome to the site!

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artyanimal

Sourthernbelleweather,

I took your "south facing window" to mean the plums were receiving direct sunlight this time of year. Evidently, this is not the case at all and I may have inadvertantly misinformed you with regard to exhausting your trees. As Treebeard noted, your blinds being kept down are currently not really benefitting your trees much (if at all). So it is now clear to me that your lights and humidity trays are handling the workload pretty well for them to be "thriving". Without direct sunlight, I now seriously doubt that you will exhaust your trees at all. In other words, it was the combination of both over a 16 hour period that had me concerned which, I evidently did not explain very well. As this is plainly not the case, you may want to just continue as before and tell me to go mind my own business!

In my estimation however, its still worth noting that real sunlight is always preferable/better than artifical. If you do choose to get some more effective use from your window(s) then, I woud suggest if possible, not to subject your trees to full or most of the day sun right off the bat. Especially if they have been without for a few months or longer. You can still cut down on the 16 hours a day by adding sunlight. Just do it a little more gradually if you can. You could set your lights for 7:00-ish for instance, and leave them on until you get some stronger morning sun only at first and build up the sun exposure time while reducing the artifical time equally over a couple of weeks. Under those circumstances, and if your schedule permits you some initial observation and determination times, my initial reply about overworking the tress (I think) would be valid.

Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers,

Arty

southernbelleweather

Thanks Grasshopper! Here are some pics:



Sorry they're not the best resolution. I took them with my little flip camcorder. I'm too embarrassed to show you the heavy prune I just did on the fuller one last night after I actually learned about the whole apex thing and how to shape them! I really needed allow the lower branches a chance to grow though.

These trees thus far have been very tolerant of my clumsy pruning attempts and rookie mistakes. I'm going to give the the one a chance to recover from my pruning, although it seems not to care, and then I'll repot into the training pots the nursery containers are sitting in in about a month or so, and then put them outside at least for spring and the first part of summer (which, here in zone 8a lasts for about a month, lol) and then keep an eye on them in the 100 plus degree heat we get after that.

I think next winter then, I'll just cut back on the water and keep them in the window till spring.

It'll be interesting to see what happens! Congrats on your Sageretia success!

artyanimal

Cheryl,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I do 'cheat' a little. We have already had two occasions with weather in the upper 30's this season and I did bring the little monsters into the greenhouse both times. I am in a commercial situation and I do try to keep all my plants looking as nice as possible. Its a bit of a trade off though as I also do have to keep merchandize on the shelves outside even if it is cool (above 30's). Plums in particular seem to get a little ticked off at this. Last year was very cool for us and they stopped growing altogether and just sat there for a couple months with nothing but visibly older and somewhat burnt leaves until spring. Understandably, I did not sell one the whole time. Sheesh!

Cheers,

Arty